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That was kind of my point In my opinion SGV/GAC's are/were taken to be broadly inline with ALARP taking bioaccessabilitly, natural background etc into account. The main issue is could a regulator stand infront of a planning inspector and successfully argue that the remedial targets should be broadly inline with sgv/gac values i.e. ALARP not C4SL values when the only policy is para121 of the NPPF which merely says as a minimum not PART IIA. I’m Pretty sure everyone agrees that the C4SL's are defiantly not part IIa and there is in theory a pretty wide gap between them and the CAT 3/2 boundary so they more than meet the "as a minimum" test on the day you are putting a case to a planning inspector. I’m fairly sure that a planning inspector would side with the developer on that argument You couldn’t even condition the use of SGV/GAC values over c4sl values as (with a developers hat on) I would argue it does not meet the reasonable test from Circular 11/95 and is therefore "ultra vires on the grounds of unreasonableness" I cant see any general ground on which a regulator could refuse the use of C4SL values (obviously that doesn’t take site specific concerns into account) but as nick merriman pointed out that’s doesn’t mean in 10 years the values wont be revised to half what they are now (look at Lead) and then we may have to look at a site under Part IIa Thanks Gareth Rees Mgeol (HONS) FGS Contaminated Land Officer E mail: [log in to unmask] Mobile: 07976 431 236 Contact Centre: 01858 82 82 82 Fax: 01858 82 10 00 DX DX 27317 Market Harborough Please Note I only work for Harborough District Council on Thursdays Fridays and alternate Wednesdays -----Original Message----- From: Contaminated Land Management Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Howard Price Sent: 15 May 2014 08:01 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: C4SL And I thought, until recently, there had been a fair consensus about this; there are, of course, reasonable limits to risk management but perhaps 'minimal risk' is a poor description - it isn't infinitessimal risk nor, especially, as Defra sought to disparage it, does it mean 'digging up the whole of Cornwall'. Howard Price Principal Policy Officer, CIEH -----Original Message----- From: Contaminated Land Management Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ] On Behalf Of Gareth Rees Sent: 14 May 2014 16:09 To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: C4SL I suppose that’s why we should really apply the principle of As Low As Reasonably Practicable (ALARP) when setting remedial targets as apposed to as high as we might be able to get away with (i.e. C4SL's) Thanks Gareth Rees Mgeol (HONS) FGS Contaminated Land Officer E mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Mobile: 07976 431 236 Contact Centre: 01858 82 82 82 Fax: 01858 82 10 00 DX DX 27317 Market Harborough Please Note I only work for Harborough District Council on Thursdays Fridays and alternate Wednesdays -----Original Message----- From: Contaminated Land Management Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Sent: 14 May 2014 15:44 To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: C4SL Hi, There was an interesting case in Texas US where a superfund site had been remediated (lead contamination from an old lead smelter) and fully declared as remediated and taken off the superfund list of sites. The tox values for lead were subsequently changed a few years later by a factor of 10 times more precautionary and the site was then again declared a superfund site. Cleanup then started all over again. I seem to remember that for the second time the site was declared a state emergency. Needless to say the locals got pretty upset. I do not think there is any way you can ever ensure that a site declared as “not contaminated” will always remain so as our knowledge changes over time. There always will be a risk of things changing and that is what developers and buyers have to bear in mind. nick Nick Merriman MSc MRICS MIQ Mineral Valuer, Valuation Office Agency, Regent Court, 14 – 17 George Road, Birmingham, B15 1NU 01684 893 140 Tel 0771 347 0580 Mob [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> -----Original Message----- From: Contaminated Land Management Discussion List [mailto:CONTAMINATED-LAND- [log in to unmask]]On <mailto:[log in to unmask]]On> Behalf Of Clive Williams Sent: 14 May 2014 11:32 To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: C4SL Just to throw more wood onto this slow burner, reading the latest CIRIA Asbestos report and in the section on planning, development control and EPA 1990 there is this: "It is appropriate that the planning process adopt a more stringent standard for the levels of soil contamination than are relevant under Part 2A. This prevents developments being determined as ‘contaminated land’ in the future when, and if, acceptable exposures to contaminants change." I can see the sense in this approach, but where do you stop? Clive You can contact the Council through the website www.harborough.gov.uk <http://www.harborough.gov.uk> , via email [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> or by telephone on 01858 828282. Harborough District Council The Symington Building Adam and Eve Street Market Harborough Leicestershire LE16 7AG Map of Council Offices: http://www.harborough.gov.uk/site/scripts/location.php <http://www.harborough.gov.uk/site/scripts/location.php> Website: http://www.harborough.gov.uk <http://www.harborough.gov.uk> Customer Services e-mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Contact Centre: 01858 82 82 82 Text Messages: 07797 87 82 82 DX 27317 Market Harborough Follow us on Twitter twitter.com/HarboroughDC Notes for E Mail Users http://www.harborough.gov.uk/site/scripts/services_info.php?serviceID=540 <http://www.harborough.gov.uk/site/scripts/services_info.php?serviceID=540> www.harborough.gov.uk/ccc_form <http://www.harborough.gov.uk/ccc_form> You can contact the Council through the website www.harborough.gov.uk, via email [log in to unmask] or by telephone on 01858 828282. Harborough District Council The Symington Building Adam and Eve Street Market Harborough Leicestershire LE16 7AG Map of Council Offices: http://www.harborough.gov.uk/site/scripts/location.php Website: http://www.harborough.gov.uk Customer Services e-mail: [log in to unmask] Contact Centre: 01858 82 82 82 Text Messages: 07797 87 82 82 DX 27317 Market Harborough Follow us on Twitter twitter.com/HarboroughDC Notes for E Mail Users http://www.harborough.gov.uk/site/scripts/services_info.php?serviceID=540 www.harborough.gov.uk/ccc_form