For war memorials and other commemorative monuments, I’m considering adding a new term to HBSMR “Display Date” for “commemorating”, and then recording the dates of the event being commemorated.  (The Display Date field in the Southampton database includes terms like "built", "altered".)

 

 

When I put WW1 things into the HER I use the ‘display date’ bit in HBSMR to put ‘World War I’, but I’m not sure that’s recoverable.

 

Helen Wells
Historic Environment Record Officer
Leicestershire County Council

Planning, Historic & Natural Environment, Leicestershire County Council, County Hall, Glenfield, Leics, LE3 8RA
Telephone: 0116 3058323 / E-mail: [log in to unmask]

 

 

 

 

I have a quick question associated with this. Do any HERs record historical events in the HER and if so how? Historical Event is in MIDAS Heritage under the Activities theme. Might this be a way of associating sites with a broader historical theme to enable easier retrieval for these sorts of queries?

 

Sarah MacLean

Heritage Information Partnerships Supervisor

English Heritage

 

From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carlisle, Philip
Sent: 02 April 2014 11:41
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: How to quantify First World War sites - and everything else!

Hi Chris,

We had a similar discussion yesterday at the FISH Terminology Working Group about using marine isotope stages for dating.

As we move towards sharing data on the interweb with our friends across the channel then the anglo-centric cultural labels become irrelevant and it becomes more about absolute dating. The cultural labels are still useful as a short cut and in your example I would probably assign a date range of 43-410 AD to the playing-card shaped cropmark but I think that's probably what they should be seen as.

 

The Timelines Thesaurus attempted to help solve this issue by allowing you to define time in numerous ways so a building could be built in the 12th CENTURY in the NORMAN (cultural style) during the reign of RICHARD I whilst still using a start/end date.

 

Never caught on though.....

 

Phil

 

 

Phil Carlisle

Data Standards Supervisor

Data Standards Unit, Designations Department

English Heritage

The Engine House

Fire Fly Avenue

Swindon

SN2 2EH

Tel: +44 (0)1793 414824

 

http://thesaurus.english-heritage.org.uk/

 

http://www.heritagedata.org/blog/

 

 

From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Webster
Sent: 02 April 2014 11:18
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: How to quantify First World War sites - and everything else!

Interesting that this is just another manifestation of the ‘problem’  caused by the use by archaeologists of cultural labels for time periods (and vice versa). Perhaps we ought to consider separating these so that, say an aerial photo of a playing-card shaped cropmark would be recorded as having an unknown date but having a cultural label of “Roman”. This seems to be what Phil is trying to achieve using the current structure.

 

 

 

Just to wade in with my twopenn'orth. A start date between 1914 and 1918 (or 1919 see Royal Artillery Memorial for their First World War dates) and an end date of same along with a display date or period of FIRST WORLD WAR will get you any monument type built during, or with a phase relating to, the conflict itself.

 

Anything could have been built or altered during those years and yet have nothing to do with the war itself. So a conservatory added to a house in 1915 would be picked up unless you've used the period name as a qualifier.

There will be countless false positives nationwide.

 

The way we record these in AMIE is to used the period of EARLY 20TH CENTURY if the building/phase is not directly related to the war itself and FIRST WORLD WAR if it is.

 

I'd also suggest that war memorials are a separate issue. Unless, as in the Home Front Legacies pilot project, they were erected during the war itself.

 

Phil

Phil Carlisle

Data Standards Supervisor

Data Standards Unit, Designations Department

English Heritage

The Engine House

Fire Fly Avenue

Swindon

SN2 2EH

Tel: +44 (0)1793 414824

 

http://thesaurus.english-heritage.org.uk/

 

http://www.heritagedata.org/blog/

 

 

From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Peter Insole
Sent: 02 April 2014 09:49
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: How to quantify First World War sites

Homes for Heroes are often related to council housing built through the 1919 Housing Act. There are private examples, but our starting point has been the council estates built in the early 1920s. However, our research suggests that you have to be careful with the definition of ‘Homes for Heroes’. Early council houses may have been designed with ex-servicemen in mind, but by the mid-1920s there was considerable calls for general housing that was not just for ex-servicemen. Part of this was because true ‘Homes for Heroes’ demanded a higher build cost and consequently higher rentals.

 

There are whole phds on the subject.

 

Pete

 

 

I think it will have to be a combination of start date 1914, monument type  and good old local knowledge.

 

One thing I have wondered is where do we get information on Homes for Heroes and small-holdings???

 

Tim

 

 

 

In many ways the question is a bit simplistic:

 

-In the case of war memorials those which commemorate WWI should be included, but with the caveat that a number of war memorials were originally erected to commemorate the Boer War, and many  WWI memorials also have parts commemorating later wars, especially WWII. And Isobel is right about post-war smallholdings  

-But the civil construction industry did not suddenly stop in August 1914. So there will be a number of monuments and buildings in our HERs that date from the period 1914-8 but which have nothing to do with the war.

 

 

What about records for those things which are a consequence of the war, other than war memorials? We have at least one which is 'commemorative monument', not a war memorial; smallholdings set up by the Homes for Heroes campaign (and still in use); and even the early council housing is a product of the war. These records are a result of the centenary, so should be counted in somehow.

Isobel

 

 

 

Sarah MacLean MA MIfA

Heritage Information Partnerships Supervisor

English Heritage

Designations Department

Engine House

Firefly Avenue

Swindon

SN2 2EH

E-mail: [log in to unmask]

Telephone: 01793 414880

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