Without an “arms industry” including Rolls Royce in 1939 - 1945 you wouldn’t currently have the freedom to express your views.
They continue to produce world leading pieces of engineering – in Britain
Think on’t
From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of alice bell
Sent: 15 March 2014 08:34
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Big Bang Fair
There is a difference between arms dealers and arms manufacturers. At no point has Dr Hamouchene confused the two. Please don't ascribe ignorance to him which he, himself, does not exhibit.
Rolls Royce are arms manufactures. Yes, they make other things. But they are also part of the arms industry. I find it puzzling that, when people like Hamza or myself raise this point, we are scolded. You could be turning round to Rolls Royce and asking them to change their portfolio of projects. The Lucas Plan is interesting if you don't know it. Another engineering industry is possible. It really is.
As for where people on that list draw the line, they all have their own. But they do choose to draw them, because they know the power and importance of such actions. Many also believe in the importance of publicly funding science - so you that "oh dear, just cut 90% of funding to STEM" doesn't have to happen. I also doubt your 90% figure there - what's your ref?
The amount of energy many members of the science and engineering community devote to maintaining the status quo - often, like climate sceptics, by demanding rather oddly framed and time-consuming "debates" - never ceases to amaze me. I like to think of science and engineering as a force for positive social change, but apparently not everyone feels that way.
There is a moral argument that we need the arms industry. I personally disagree, but have more respect for that because it is at least a bit more self-aware. Your argument seems to be science doesn't kill people, politicians kill people. Which massively underplays (or simply fails to recognise) the agency of the scientist and citizen.
It worries me slightly that our STEMNET ambassadors are so politically naive.
On 14 March 2014 18:51, Jennifer Marsden <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
So, rolls Royce is an arms dealer now? Deary me.
I have mixed feelings about this, after all, I thought this list was for rational people who work to promote fair science communication as opposed to activists who live in a world where science is only used for 'good'
Where do people on this list then draw the line? Any energy company that is not 100% renewable? Bar the armed forces engineers from recruiting? Oh dear, what about those 'evil' pharmaceutical companies. You just cut 90% of funding to STEM.
It's BAE systems, not al qaeda.
I'm a stemnet ambassador. I'm passionate about making the world a better place. But vilifying stem companies is probably not the way to do it. Perhaps unfortunately, that is at the hands of our politicians.
On Mar 14, 2014, at 12:23, alice bell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: