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I did mean the tea and sympathy approach which I think serves little purpose in OH. Sometimes the difficult impartial decisions or frank discussions, which can be perceived as uncaring, end up being the best solutions all round and address problems which have been avoided because they are difficult. I have had two difficult conversations this week with individuals who desperately want to continue in their jobs but I have to advise they are not fit. Hopefully that has been communicated in a way which is professional but also acknowledging that it is difficult for them and I understand that. I also agree that we cannot be the client/patient advocate in the sort of case Anne describes, I was once described by a union rep as firm but fair when dealing with that type of case - I have no issue with that. Nice debate! Karen From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask] Sent: 17 January 2014 11:35 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] FW: Nurses face three-year competency checks - Telegraph To add to the debate - I think it depends on what is meant by "care" and "compassion". I, like Karen, care about the working conditions and health status of employees. However, we are employed to be impartial advisers to both employee and employer and therefore we are the only group of nurses that are not always "client/patient advocate". The advice we give to a manager may not actually be in the interest of the employee. To illustrate: a client employed in the NHS his 20's who has taken a large amount of repeated short term absence (55 days on 35 occasions) with no underlying significant health problem and who had not seen his GP re his various aches and pains. Absences occurred predominantly either side of his scheduled days off. He was referred for an OH opinion. I had no hesitation responding to his manager that in my opinion it was a management rather than a health issue. The employee probably thought I was an "uncaring" nurse. However, I view it from the perspective of: * Abuse of the sickpay scheme with a significant cost to the NHS which impacts on patient care * The impact on the manager trying to run a department * The impact on the co-workers. I would hope that the manager would then start performance manageing this employee more effectively. A public health pro-active approach to OH provision underpins my approach but I am not signed up to a tea and sympathy based service which is what I think Karen means when she refers to "pink and fluffy". I want to see hazards controlled and staff working in an environment which is safe and promotes health. Anne Anne Harriss Course Director LONDON SOUTH BANK UNIVERSITY On 17/01/2014 08:58, "Karen Coomer" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Hi Lynda As you know I have always had a concern about this in OH and put pen to paper a few years ago due to seeing some (in my view) OH practice that fell short of what I would consider is a care and compassionate approach. I think the problem is that sometimes there is a perception that care & compassion = fluffy OH service. Actually care and compassion can take many forms, I would consider that the research I am currently doing is based the fact that I care very much that low skilled workers often do not make pension age without significant health issues, so on the face of it not traditionally caring or compassionate but if it can demonstrate a change in the practice which helps people stay at work then it will worth all the work involved. I wrote an article on this subject a few years ago, I attach it now for anyone interested. Karen From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lynda Wright Sent: 16 January 2014 22:53 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [OCC-HEALTH] FW: Nurses face three-year competency checks - Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/10554500/Nurses-face-three-year -competency-checks.html The role of Occupational Health nurses in certain areas will have to change when this is introduced. Last year I was offered a position where they were emphatic it was not our role to care or have compassion. What do other think? Happy New Year everyone From Lynda ******************************** Please remove this footer before replying. OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH ******************************** Please remove this footer before replying. OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH ******************************** Please remove this footer before replying. OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH ******************************** Please remove this footer before replying. OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH