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Standard or non-standard, I have never ever come across A or B as features of "colloquial" Parisian L1 French. I couldn't say about other varieties. M. On 17/12/2013 21:02, Daniel Ezra Johnson wrote: > It's odd when someone reports on a non-standard construction and the > response of another linguist - on the Variationist List, no less - is > to say "it doesn't exist". > > But if you take what is likely to be a common example sentence, let's > say, "je sais pas c'est qui", while this is utterly unacceptable in > standard French, there are indeed thousands and thousands of Google > hits for it. > > That is to say, I never came across these constructions before either, > but so what? They do seem to exist. > > > On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 6:59 PM, Marc FRYD <[log in to unmask] > <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > > Dear Maria, > Are the labels of "Colloquial" and "spoken" not applied a bit > loosely here? > I ask because examples (A) and (B) if assumed to be genuine > embedded questions --and not (at least for some of them) > sequences of two independent sentences (#je ne me souviens plus# > #j'avais dit quoi?#-- strike me as doubtful, save in L2 French. (I > know nothing about Reunion French.) I certainly have ever come > across any of these from L1 speakers of French. Now the case of > (C) is altogether different, and is a well-known feature of > substandard French all across France, where QUE may be favoured > over standard DONT, in "le magasin que je te parlais" (= the shop > that I was telling you about). This feature strikes me as somewhat > comparable, in terms of register, to that of relative WHAT in > London English, as in 'the shop what I was telling you about'. > Best, > Marc > > > > > On 17/12/2013 15:25, Maria Secova wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> Could anyone point me to any literature on embedded Qs in spoken >> French (or anything else that might be relevant)? >> There seem to be 3 types of such constructions in our data from >> the Multicultural London English - Multicultural Paris French >> project: >> >> (A) forms with 'quoi' instead of 'ce que': >> >> - je me souviens plus j'avais dit quoi >> - je sais pas si vous savez ça veut dire quoi >> - donc les parents ils savent ça veut dire quoi >> - tu sais ils ont dit quoi >> >> >> (B) forms with clause-final 'qui', 'comment', 'combien' etc.): >> >> - je vois pas c'est qui >> - lui tu sais on l'appelle comment ? >> - je sais même pas c'est où >> - est-ce que tu vois c'est qui (..) ? >> - on comprend direct c'est quel personnage >> - lui tu sais on l'appelle comment ? >> - je sais plus c'était combien .. >> >> And (C) forms with 'qu'est-ce que' instead of 'ce que': >> >> - t'as vu qu'est-ce que tu fais là ? >> - des fois on- juste à se regarder on comprend qu'est-ce qu'on a >> dit et voilà .. >> - mais ça se fait pas qu'est-ce qu'ils nous font aussi ! >> >> Any comments and suggestions are welcome ... merci beaucoup ! >> >> Best wishes, and Merry Christmas to all, >> >> Maria >> >> -------------------------------- >> Maria Secova >> Post-doctoral researcher >> Multicultural London English - Multicultural Paris French >> http://www.mle-mpf.bbk.ac.uk/Home.html >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> The Variationist List - discussion of everything related to >> variationist sociolinguistics. >> >> To send messages to the VAR-L list (subscribers only), write to: >> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >> >> To unsubscribe from the VAR-L list, click the following link: >> https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=VAR-L&A=1 >> > > > -- > *Dr. Marc FRYD (HDR) * > http://ll.univ-poitiers.fr/etudes-anglophones/spip.php?article121&lang=fr > > > Faculté des Lettres et des Langues > Université de Poitiers > 1 rue Raymond Cantel > 86022, Poitiers, France > > Tel. [33](0)5 49 45 48 11 > Mob. [33](0)6 40 31 21 43 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The Variationist List - discussion of everything related to > variationist sociolinguistics. > > To send messages to the VAR-L list (subscribers only), write to: > [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > > To unsubscribe from the VAR-L list, click the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=VAR-L&A=1 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The Variationist List - discussion of everything related to > variationist sociolinguistics. > > To send messages to the VAR-L list (subscribers only), write to: > [log in to unmask] > > To unsubscribe from the VAR-L list, click the following link: > https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?SUBED1=VAR-L&A=1 > -- *Dr. Marc FRYD (HDR) * http://ll.univ-poitiers.fr/etudes-anglophones/spip.php?article121&lang=fr Faculté des Lettres et des Langues Université de Poitiers 1 rue Raymond Cantel 86022, Poitiers, France Tel. 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