I'm not sure what your point is, David. Are you  making the modest and uncontroversial claim that interpreters sometimes take a leap of faith (no quarrel with that) or you saying that we should "give credence to"  (the supposed pun that started this thread) "force" in literary interpretation? If you are making the latter claim, much depends on the kind of force you are advocating. Or maybe you are just having fun (no quarrel there either).

 

John L

 

On 11/21/13, David Miller <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

As interpreters, we add faith to our force in order to cross the aporia of linguistic error.  It's the only way we get to declare the monster conquered, but the triumph may be premature.

Okay, I have done.  ;-)

D

On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 5:50 PM, John K Leonard <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

A possible Miltonic parallel:

 

                                                               only add

               Deeds to thy knowledge answerable, add faith,

               Add virtue, patience, temperance, add love,

               By name to come called charity, the soul

               Of all the rest. ( PL 12. 581-5)

 

With which compare 2. Pet.1.5-7: 'Add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity'

No mention there of 'force' (though 'virtue' might, and on the lips of Milton's Satan does, include that sense, from Latin virtus). On balance, I suspect that Spenser did not intend the pun, at least did not want to condone it (Redcrosse errs when he trusts force alone), but I can see that its availability adds an enhancing suggestion, what Christopher Ricks might call an 'anti-pun' ('evoked in order to be excluded').

 

John Leonard

 

On 11/21/13, Anne Prescott <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Yes, and a quest in any fiction worth reading is likely to be curvy. "Erare" (if I have the Latin right) is to err and to wander--like A&E as they leave Milton's Eden and, as somebody once said, are released from that Garden into the landscape of The Faerie Queene. Over and out--I'm off to go to a reading by Kimberly Johnson, whose verse shimmers with Donne and whom I want to persuade to shimmer with Spenser too.  On Nov 21, 2013, at 3:14 PM, Ethan Guagliardo wrote: Nicely put! On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:06 PM, David Miller <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Perhaps error is neither a problem to be solved nor a dragon to be slain, but the condition of any quest. On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Ethan Guagliardo <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Is faith enough to solve the problem of error? On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Lauren Silberman <[log in to unmask]> wrote: Maybe force is enough to clobber a dragon, but not to solve the underlying problem of error. (I’m more irritated by people, mostly not students, who use “begs the question” when they mean “invites the question” mostly because question begging is a serious fallacy.)   From: Sidney-Spenser Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Anne Prescott Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 2:32 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Gallicisms in Spenser?   A very good point, Lauren. But also, just to be stupidly obvious--what would be the allegorical/theological implications? Is force enough when fighting error? (True, I've sometimes wanted to slug students who misunderstand affect/effect).  On Nov 21, 2013, at 2:19 PM, Lauren Silberman wrote: What Una means and what Redcrosse understands might not be the same.  Think about how he hears Duessa’s “Thine the shield and I and all.”   From: Sidney-Spenser Discussion List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf OfHarry Berger Jr Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 1:55 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Gallicisms in Spenser?     . Does it make sense in the Spenserian context?   Very much so.  Trust your force. You can do it, Boy. Una's already mommying him.     On Nov 21, 2013, at 10:36 AM, David Wilson-Okamura wrote: What do we think Una's means, "Add faith vnto your force and be not faint" (FQ I.i.19)? Hamilton glosses "add" as "join," citing 2 Peter 1:5: "joyne moreover vertue with your faith." That makes sense to me, but I was just rereading War and Peace, where Tolstoy quotes a letter from Napoleon to the supreme Russian commander:   "Monsieur le prince Koutouzov, j’envoie près de vous un de mes aides de camp généraux pour vous entretenir de plusieurs objets intéressants. Je désire que votre Altesse ajoute foi à ce qu’il lui dira, surtout lorsqu’il exprimera les sentiments d’estime et de particulière considération que j’ai depuis longtemps pour sa personne."   The phrase that caught my eye was, obviously, "ajoute foi": trust, give credence to. I don't find it recorded its verbatim equivalent, "add faith," recorded in the OED or Shakespeare.   a. Was the French idiom already current in the Age of Catherine de' Medici?   b. Does it make sense in the Spenserian context?   c. If so, are there other Gallicisms in Spenser?     -- Dr. David Wilson-Okamura    http://virgil.org          [log in to unmask] English Department              Virgil reception, discussion, documents, &c East Carolina University        Sparsa et neglecta coegi. -- Claude Fauchet     -- David Lee Miller University of South Carolina Columbia, SC  29208 (803) 777-4256 FAX   777-9064 [log in to unmask] Center for Digital Humanities Faculty Web Page Dreams of the Burning Child A Touch More Rare

 

--
David Lee Miller
University of South Carolina
Columbia, SC  29208
(803) 777-4256
FAX   777-9064
[log in to unmask]
Center for Digital Humanities
Faculty Web Page
Dreams of the Burning Child
A Touch More Rare