I agree….imagine asking Alexander Fleming to do EBM on his Petri-dish that showed a clear bacteriostatic field around the mould. Sometimes the Bayesian priors are too low, and effect size (posteriors) too large to remove all doubts and the requirements for assessments of confounding and selection bias. Basic medical science falls more in this category in my opinion…unless of course one is doing an epi kind of study on basic medical science topics.

 

m

 

From: Evidence based health (EBH) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of k.hopayian
Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 3:46 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: EBP and basic medical science

 

This has been an interesting discussion but I think that an important distinction has been overlooked. 

Evidence-Based-Practice is about, er, clinical practice. It is where science or evidence adds value to clinical experience, resources and patient's values in decisions about health care, whether individual patient care or public health. The scientific contribution differentiates it from non-scientific aspects of clinical practice, e.g., veneration of authority, anecdote, fashion etc.

Basic medical science is, er, science, which has rules about the correct conduct of investigation. It does not APPLY this to patients or populations, although its results may be applied in evidence based practice.

 

 

Kev Hopayain

On 26 Nov 2013, at 02:07, Ansari, Mohammed <[log in to unmask]> wrote:



This is a good article that explains the fundamental difference between discovery research (which you could also apply to basic science) and research on intended effects of therapy (or confirmatory research). The Bayesian priors are quite different, and, therefore, the hierarchies evidence -- EBM in basic sciences indeed employs a different approach:

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.0050067
 



-----Original Message-----
From: Evidence based health (EBH) on behalf of Makretsov, Nikita [PH]
Sent: Mon 25/11/2013 6:05 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: EBP and basic medical science

Barmak,

Basic med sciences create exploratory level primary evidence studies which from the foundation of further observational studies and finally diagnostic tests. Therefore the filed of diagnostics is a major beneficiary of EBM-based quality observational evidence. The diagnostic RCTs are just started making their way into medicine:

I just got an excellent book which landscapes the area:

Richard M.Simon  Genomic Clinical Trials and Predictive Medicine, Cambridge Univ Press, 2013,.

Best wishes,
Nik


Nik (Nikita) A. Makretsov, MD, PhD, FRCPC
Anatomical pathologist, St.Paul's Hospital,
Clinical Assistant Professor, University of British Columbia
Department of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine
1081 Burrard St, Vancouver, BC, V6Z1Y6

Phone (604) 682-2344 x 66038

Email: [log in to unmask]

-----Original Message-----
From: Evidence based health (EBH) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Amy Price
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 8:09 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: EBP and basic medical science

I see EBP as undersold in these disciplines and the obvious benefits would
be safer more accurate medicine and research.
Best
Amy

On 11/24/13 10:41 AM,
wrote:

>Dear All
>I would be very thankful if you answer the following questions of mine.
>Is there any kind of EBP in basic medical science like Anatomy,
>Physiology, biochemistry and genetics?
>Is there any evidence  to show that teaching EBP to these  disciplines
>has obvious benefits?
>
>Best regards
>

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