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Dear all, Like David I don't come from the place of storage decision-making, but have worked with several different museum collections (and noticed how easily things get lost, separated, etc. even when they are being 'kept'!). I wonder about the viability of semi-permanent or long-term loans of material to different institutions within (or outside) the country of origin. I know in many cases institutions are looking for less material to deal with, not more, and it too could get quite complex-but at any rate this could be one option to add to the list of many combinations, especially if the material is relevant to ongoing research at another institution. Best Suzanne On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Pam Crabtree <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > This has been a really interesting thread. I have a particular issue. I > sit here in the US, but most of the material I have worked on over the past > 35+ years is stored in the UK. When Juliet Clutton-Brock was still at the > BMNH she agreed to take all the West Stow material. The subsequent curator > decided that he didn’t want it, and it now sits in a storage unit in > Ipswich, along with the material from Brandon, Icklingham, Ipswich... I > hope that the analyst would be consulted before any decisions about > disposal were made. Since I will not be back in the UK until the TAG > meetings in December, I hope that we can continue the November conversation > at ICAZ next year. There are a lot of things that could be done with the > West Stow material that simply were not done in the later 1970s, Pam > Crabtree > > *From:* Terry O'Connor <[log in to unmask]> > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 23, 2013 11:37 AM > *To:* [log in to unmask] > *Subject:* Re: [ZOOARCH] Selective retention and disposal of animal > remains > > Well, this thread has certainly stirred up a diversity of views - good! > From David Orton's thoughtful contribution, I would draw attention to the > following passage: > > "Personally, I would argue that while every case is obviously different, > the ideal strategy in a given situation (short of complete retention, > obviously) is likely to entail a combination of these approaches: retention > of everything from a sample of contexts, and of a sample of "good" > specimens from the remainder. Such a strategy could get very complicated > very fast, however, making it absolutely imperative that a detailed > explanation be lodged in the archive (with back-ups elsewhere) where it > cannot be missed by any visiting researcher. I know this should be obvious, > but my experience is that past retention strategies are often anything but > transparent". > > In a nutshell, that is what we have been trying to do, of necessity more > than choice, with the Hungate material from York. For a sample of contexts, > selected on grounds of contextual integrity, whatever was recovered is > retained. For the remainder, a limited selection of specimens likely to be > of future research value in themselves is retained, such as exotic taxa out > of their usual temporal or geographic range or particularly distinctive > pathological specimens. Incidentally, at the time of writing, material that > has not been retained has not been 'disposed of' either. That final step > needs a little more consideration, not least whether material of little > future research value could have contemporary value as handling/teaching > collections. > > And Simon's hoped-for low-cost direct dating method for bones may come to > pass, but please excuse me if I don't hold my breath in anticipation.... > > Terry > > > Terry O'Connor > Professor of Archaeological Science > Department of Archaeology, University of York > Biology S Block, Heslington, > York YO10 5DD > +44-1904-328619 > http://www.york.ac.uk/archaeology/staff/academic-staff/terry-oconnor/ > > http://www.sciculture.ac.uk/projects/large-grants/cultural-and-scientific-perceptions-of-human-chicken-interactions/ > > > On 23 October 2013 15:49, Simon Davis <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> And besides, one day we'll have a method for dating small bones >> individually >> that won't cost much . . . then even the poorly stratified material will >> become useful! >> Simon Davis >> >> -----Mensagem original----- >> De: Analysis of animal remains from archaeological sites >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Em nome de Michael A. Etnier >> Enviada: quarta-feira, 23 de Outubro de 2013 0:37 >> Para: [log in to unmask] >> Assunto: Re: [ZOOARCH] Selective retention and disposal of animal remains >> >> I'm afraid I have to disagree with Julie vis a vis the utility of >> poorly-dated assemblages. On our Pacific Coast, Shawn Larson was >> interested >> in evaluating the loss of genetic diversity in sea otters as a consequence >> of commercial over-hunting of their populations. All she needed to know >> is >> that the sampled bones pre-dated the beginning of the commercial trade. >> >> We sampled 25 individuals, which required a massive overall assemblage >> size, >> and she was able to document that their genetic diversity was roughly >> twice >> that of the post-commercial remnant population. >> >> None of this could have been accomplished if the assemblage had been >> thinned >> out and partially discarded. >> >> >> ---Mike >> >> Michael A. Etnier, PhD >> Applied Osteology >> Bellingham, WA >> www.appliedosteology.com >> >> and >> >> Department of Anthropology >> University of Washington >> Seattle, WA >> http://faculty.washington.edu/metnier/ >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> > From: "Julie Hamilton" <[log in to unmask]> >> > Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2013 4:34 AM >> > To: [log in to unmask] >> > Subject: Re: [ZOOARCH] Selective retention and disposal of animal >> remains >> > >> > From the point of view of someone who's spent a lot of time sampling >> curated bone for isotope analysis (which wasn't even dreamt of at the time >> the sites were dug): it's all about the archaeology. Bone from mixed >> contexts or without good contextual information is virtually useless, >> however complete/pretty/identified/modified/interesting. Conversely, >> scrappy bone from a secure context (especially if dated)is really useful. >> See also the recent projects headed by Alasdair Whittle & Alex Bayliss on >> radiocarbon dating long barrows & causewayed enclosures - fantastic >> fine-grained dating of major importance to archaeology in general, not >> zooarchaeology alone. I think this would apply to most studies that rely >> on >> going back to museum collections, even the ones using techniques that >> haven't been invented yet. >> > j >> > >> > Julie Hamilton >> > RLAHA >> > Dyson Perrins Bldg >> > South Parks Rd >> > OXFORD OX1 3QY >> > >> > Phone: 01865 285216 >> > Mobile: 07814 433424 >> > email: [log in to unmask] >> > >> > When emailing me, please check that you are using the @rlaha address, to >> avoid confusion with the other JH at Oxford! (@MedSci) >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Analysis of animal remains from archaeological sites >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Warman, Sylvia >> > Sent: 22 October 2013 10:27 >> > To: [log in to unmask] >> > Subject: Re: [ZOOARCH] Selective retention and disposal of animal >> remains >> > >> > Sorry Zooarchers >> > >> > I forgot the no attachments rule. >> > >> > Please use the following link to find out more about the upcoming event >> at the LAARC. >> > >> > >> >> http://www.archaeologists.net/news/131021-workshop-selection-strategies-arch >> ive-deposition-or-'less-more >> > >> > >> > Best Wishes >> > >> > Sylvia >> > >> > >> > >> > Dr Sylvia Warman | Science Advisor, London >> > >> > Direct Line: 0207 973 3733 >> > >> > Mobile Phone: 07881805347 >> > >> > >> > >> > English Heritage | 1 Waterhouse Square >> > >> > 138-42 Holborn | London EC1N 2ST >> > >> > >> > >> > www.english-heritage.org.uk >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Robert Symmons [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >> > Sent: 22 October 2013 10:15 >> > To: Warman, Sylvia >> > Subject: RE: [ZOOARCH] Selective retention and disposal of animal >> remains >> > >> > Since it will be the day before my 40th, I would say a drink is >> mandatory. >> > :) >> > xx >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Warman, Sylvia [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >> > Sent: 22 October 2013 10:09 >> > To: 'Robert Symmons' >> > Subject: RE: [ZOOARCH] Selective retention and disposal of animal >> remains >> > >> > Super >> > >> > Might fit in a swift beverage after unless you are on tight schedule? >> > >> > Sylvia >> > >> > >> > Dr Sylvia Warman | Science Advisor, London >> > >> > Direct Line: 0207 973 3733 >> > >> > Mobile Phone: 07881805347 >> > >> > >> > >> > English Heritage | 1 Waterhouse Square >> > >> > 138-42 Holborn | London EC1N 2ST >> > >> > >> > >> > www.english-heritage.org.uk >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Robert Symmons [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >> > Sent: 22 October 2013 10:08 >> > To: Warman, Sylvia >> > Subject: RE: [ZOOARCH] Selective retention and disposal of animal >> remains >> > >> > Hi Dude >> > Already enrolled in the meeting. It sounds like it will be an excellent >> day! >> > xx >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Warman, Sylvia [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >> > Sent: 22 October 2013 10:00 >> > To: 'Robert Symmons' >> > Subject: RE: [ZOOARCH] Selective retention and disposal of animal >> remains >> > >> > Hello Nobs >> > >> > We (folks in London with help of IfA london and the LAARC) are holding a >> workshop on just this topic on 14th Novemeber at the LAARC. >> > >> > I'm taking notes in the animal bone session - but it would be great to >> have some more curator type people there (plus you are still a Zooarch >> underneath as it were). >> > >> > I will send a less chatty version of this around ZOOARCH. >> > >> > Details of workshop attached - I do hope you can make it. >> > >> > Sylvia >> > >> > >> > Dr Sylvia Warman | Science Advisor, London >> > >> > Direct Line: 0207 973 3733 >> > >> > Mobile Phone: 07881805347 >> > >> > >> > >> > English Heritage | 1 Waterhouse Square >> > >> > 138-42 Holborn | London EC1N 2ST >> > >> > >> > >> > www.english-heritage.org.uk >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Analysis of animal remains from archaeological sites >> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Robert Symmons >> > Sent: 22 October 2013 09:56 >> > To: [log in to unmask] >> > Subject: [ZOOARCH] Selective retention and disposal of animal remains >> > >> > Dear All >> > >> > Like much of the country, museums here in Sussex are suffering from an >> acute lack of storage space. In an attempt to alleviate this problem >> Sussex >> Museums Group (in consultation with the planning authority, local >> specialists and commercial units) is keen to limit the volume of material >> that is entering museum stores from developer-funded excavations. We are >> facing the prospect of making some very difficult decisions and I do not >> ask the following question lightly: >> > >> > What animal bone from developer-funded excavations could justifiably be >> disposed of following analysis, rather than being deposited at a museum? >> > >> > Of course we understand that the answer is not as simple as the >> question, >> but we hope to synthesise specialist opinion into some guidance that can >> be >> rolled out across the county. Sadly, keeping everything is not an option >> at >> this stage. >> > >> > All the best >> > Rob >> > >> > Rob Symmons >> > Secretary, Sussex Museums Group. >> > >> > This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain >> personal views which are not the views of English Heritage unless >> specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it >> from your system and notify the sender immediately. Do not use, copy or >> disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it. Any >> information sent to English Heritage may become publicly available. >> > >> > Portico: your gateway to information on sites in the National Heritage >> Collection; have a look and tell us what you think. >> > >> >> http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/archives-and-collections/por >> >> > tico/ >> > >> > This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain >> personal views which are not the views of English Heritage unless >> specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it >> from your system and notify the sender immediately. Do not use, copy or >> disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it. Any >> information sent to English Heritage may become publicly available. >> > >> > Portico: your gateway to information on sites in the National Heritage >> Collection; have a look and tell us what you think. >> > >> >> http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/archives-and-collections/por >> >> > tico/ >> > >> > This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain >> personal views which are not the views of English Heritage unless >> specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it >> from your system and notify the sender immediately. Do not use, copy or >> disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it. Any >> information sent to English Heritage may become publicly available. >> > >> > Portico: your gateway to information on sites in the National Heritage >> Collection; have a look and tell us what you think. >> > >> >> http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/archives-and-collections/por >> tico/ >> > > -- Dr. Suzanne E. Pilaar Birch Postdoctoral Fellow Joukowsky Institute for Archaeology & the Ancient World Brown University 60 George Street, Providence, RI, 02912 USA Website: brown.academia.edu/SuzannePilaarBirch Twitter: @suzie_birch