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I think in the context of a discussion about science being stereotyped and disrespected, pointing out that it has a highly privileged place in society, compared with any other field of academia, is highly relevant. Alice Bell <[log in to unmask]> wrote: What a limited view to have of public engagement, science and how either sits in broader society. Just saying. I thought this was a list for things relating to public engagement with science, not public engagment with humanities, nor righting all the wrongs in the world in order of how wrong we think they are? Just sayin' ---------- Dr Alice Bell http://alicerosebell.wordpress.com On 4 Oct 2013, at 17:54, Angharad Watson <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: I don't think anyone was suggesting that stereotyping of scientists is equal to or as harmful as stereotyping of people with mental health problems, only that negative stereotypes are harmful, and particularly harmful to children. Saying that you shouldn't try to stop something that's bad, just because it's not as bad as something else, makes no sense. Every other costume on the Tesco website depicts an animal/vegetable or mythical figure, so does not rely on negative stereotypes. Scientist was the only profession included (barring clown, which didn't carry a modifying negative adjective), which says a lot about how entrenched this stereotype is, while additionally adding to the idea of "mad" being synonomous to "evil" (Alice, I agree that focussing on the use of the word "mad" here would also have been a helpful approach). If we're asking for more awareness in these matters, why is it ok to continue with one stereotype and not another? And yes, Oli, real-world science is better funded than humanities, but when Harrison Ford was an archaeologist, he was a hero, but when he was a scientist (What Lies Beneath) he was a murderer. I've yet to sit through a movie where the human race was destroyed by a geographer, but I've lost count of how many zombie viruses we've caused. And while people might not really think scientists are "mad", the ASPIRES project at Kings demonstrated that they really do think they're old men, as per the halloween costume (although, Alice, I totally agree with you that the biggest problems facing women in science are internal). Perspective-wise - I thought this was a list for things relating to public engagement with science, not public engagment with humanities, nor righting all the wrongs in the world in order of how wrong we think they are? Just sayin' Angharad On 4 October 2013 16:41, Richard Berks <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: I have to agree with Alice. The issue that mental health charities took with the branding of the costume as a ‘mental patient’ was that it contributed to the long-standing and continuing stereotype of people with mental health problems, that they are inherently dangerous and violent. Comparing that level of prejudice, to the negative portrayal of scientists by the ‘mad scientist’ costume – as if scientists face equivalent discrimination and persecution as people with mental health issues – is really poor taste. Richard Berks Research Information Officer E: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of alice bell Sent: 04 October 2013 16:37 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Tesco have rebranded that offensive costume I think this is a bit crass. In fact, it's made me quite angry. I appreciate that stereotypical images of scientists are frustrating. But it is qualitatively and significantly different to the types of prejudice faced by people with mental health problems. E.g. why not just join in the campaigns against the idea of "mad" as a joke - be it applied to scientists or anyone else - rather than use it as a chance to promote yourselves? Also, if you'd like to campaign on "violence" in images of science for young children, what's your take on sponsorship of things like the Big Bang Fair by groups like BAE Systems. Seriously. Look at yourselves. On 4 October 2013 16:18, Nina Cromeyer Dieke <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: Well done! >>> Victoria Steven <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> 04/10/2013 15:49 >>> Hi all, The Royal Society of Chemistry issued a press release today calling for retailers to stop selling mad scientist costumes – Amazon are at it too apparently: http://www.rsc.org/AboutUs/News/PressReleases/2013/RSC-children-costumes.asp We’re also trying a bit of a campaign on Twitter in the same vein as Mind and Time to Change did in response to the mental patient costume. They asked people with mental health conditions to tweet pictures of themselves<http://www.channel4.com/news/asda-mental-patient-fancy-dress-costume-mind-geroge> using #mentalpatient to show people what they really look like and quash the stereotype. Following on from Mind and Time to Change’s really great campaign (which got hundreds of people to tweet pictures of themselves), we’re asking scientists to say no to the ‘mad scientist’ stereotype and tweet pictures of themselves using #realscientist. It would be great if you could tweet pics yourselves and do some retweeting to encourage any other scientists you know to get involved – and show the world we’re not mad! We’re on @RSC_Comms<https://twitter.com/RSC_Comms>. Thanks! Victoria Victoria Steven | RSC Media Relations Executive Tel: +44 (0)207 440 3322<tel:%2B44%20%280%29207%20440%203322> | +44 (0)7774328390<tel:%2B44%20%280%297774328390> From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of Omar Jamshed Sent: 03 October 2013 16:45 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Tesco have rebranded that offensive costume Clearly not a mad scientist, I can’t see the rejected grant application form anywhere! Omar Jamshed Communications Assistant From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Julie Webb Sent: 03 October 2013 16:34 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: [PSCI-COM] Tesco have rebranded that offensive costume Hi all, Has anyone seen Tesco's rebranding of THAT costume? It has become a 'mad scientists' costume. No, really it's here: http://www.clothingattesco.com/fancy-dress/halloween-mad-scientist-costume/invt/ar329040/&bklist=icat,4,shop,halloween,all-halloween I hesitate to say its a tad stereotyped - it is, apart from the belt, which is clearly from the previously withdrawn costume and has nothing to do with scientists at all. Grrr.... __________________________________________________________________ Dr Julie C Webb 37 Chapel Lane, Fowlmere, Cambs, SG8 7SB 01763 208345 mob: 07779 637904 __________________________________________________________________ ********************************************************************** Commands - send an email (any subject) to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with one of the following messages (ignoring text in brackets) • set psci-com nomail (to stop receiving messages while on holiday) • set psci-com mail (to resume getting messages) • signoff psci-com (to leave the list) • Subscribe here https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=psci-com Contact list owner at [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Small print and JISCMail acceptable use policy https://sites.google.com/site/pscicomjiscmail/the-small-print ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed, and may contain confidential information. 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The Royal Society of Chemistry is a charity, registered in England and Wales, number 207890 - Registered office: Thomas Graham House, Science Park, Milton Road, Cambridge CB4 0WF ********************************************************************** Commands - send an email (any subject) to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with one of the following messages (ignoring text in brackets) • set psci-com nomail (to stop receiving messages while on holiday) • set psci-com mail (to resume getting messages) • signoff psci-com (to leave the list) • Subscribe here https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=psci-com Contact list owner at [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Small print and JISCMail acceptable use policy https://sites.google.com/site/pscicomjiscmail/the-small-print ********************************************************************** ********************************************************************** Commands - send an email (any subject) to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> with one of the following messages (ignoring text in brackets) • set psci-com nomail (to stop receiving messages while on holiday) • set psci-com mail (to resume getting messages) • signoff psci-com (to leave the list) • Subscribe here https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=psci-com Contact list owner at [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Small print and JISCMail acceptable use policy https://sites.google.com/site/pscicomjiscmail/the-small-print ********************************************************************** -- -- Alice R Bell http://alicerosebell.wordpress.com/ ********************************************************************** Commands - 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