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Included below is a note re OS maps sales ratio to 'general pubic' versus US nautical chart sales. -----Original Message----- From: Maps, Air Photo, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Angie Cope, American Geographical Society Library, UW Milwaukee Sent: 28 October 2013 11:43 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Have Lithographic Print Nautical Charts Gone Down With the Ship? -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Have Lithographic Print Nautical Charts Gone Down With the Ship? Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 17:51:18 -0400 From: Russell Guy <[log in to unmask]> To: Maps, Air Photo, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship <[log in to unmask]> Kathy's point is, unfortunately, correct. Even back 10 years ago, something like 90% of USGS topos sold less than 10 sheets per year. When your print run is 2500, then it is a life-time supply. Unfortunately that difference between litho-printed and plot-on-demand gets larger as one gets older and the eyes start going bad. Those 3s sure look like 8s at 300 dpi on low quality paper where the ink has bled a bit. When you are lost and can't read the numbers, it becomes an issue. We do plot-on-demand for USGS topos on good quality paper, but even so, some times the maps are just hard to read. The British Ordnance Survey sold 3,000,000 litho-printed 1:50,000 Landrangers and 1:25,000 Explorers last year, compared to the 350,000 topos the USGS sold. That is about 1 map per 21 people in the UK vs. 1 map per 900 people here. Guess it helps to teach kids how to use paper maps in elementary school. It also helps to have a nice folded product that displays well in stores rather than flat sheets that are a hassle to store. Cheers Russell Guy At 04:47 PM 10/25/2013, you wrote: >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: RE: Have Lithographic Print Nautical Charts Gone Down With the > Ship? >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 20:42:06 +0000 >From: Kathy Stroud <[log in to unmask]> >To: Maps, Air Photo, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship ><[log in to unmask]> > > >Keep in mind, lithographic printing is a much different process than >print -on-demand using a plotter. You need to creating the printing >plates, and print and warehouse a full run of maps. If you are not >selling enough maps to go through a full print run before you have to >update, you lose money. Print on demand is a much cheaper technology >and has probably gotten "good enough" so the charts produced are a good >substitute for the lithographically printed charts. (Compare an older >USGS maps with the maps that we can currently print out to see the >difference between the lithographic process and print on demand.) > >Still, I'm bummed to see them go. > >Has anyone talked to NOAA about whether they are archiving snapshots of >the data? > > >Kathy Stroud >David and Nancy Petrone Map/GIS Librarian Knight Library >1299 University of Oregon >Eugene, OR 97403-1299 >541-346-3051 > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Maps, Air Photo, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship >[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Angie Cope, American >Geographical Society Library, UW Milwaukee >Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 1:33 PM >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: Have Lithographic Print Nautical Charts Gone Down With the >Ship? > >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: Re: Have Lithographic Print Nautical Charts Gone Down With the >Ship? >Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 15:25:05 -0500 >From: Mark Walker <[log in to unmask]> >To: Maps, Air Photo, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship ><[log in to unmask]> > > >I think the demand for printed charts is just not there. Commercial >shipping uses chart plotters and therefore requires a digital chart. > >I recently looked into becoming a NOAA agent. They don't have the nice >PDF files like USGS supplies. If they did it would allow for a print on >demand model that would keep hard copies available. They aren't going >to stop producing data. Maybe they could afford to have the data >formatted and made available. I would happily plot charts for >customers. I have standing orders as it is. > >Sent from my iPhone > >>On Oct 25, 2013, at 2:39 PM, "Angie Cope, American Geographical >>Society Library, UW Milwaukee" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>-------- Original Message -------- >>Subject: Re: Have Lithographic Print >>Nautical Charts Gone Down With the >>Ship? >>Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 15:38:06 -0400 >>From: Fry, Michael <[log in to unmask]> >>To: Maps, Air Photo, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship >><[log in to unmask]> >> >> >> >>NOAA has an FAQ about this. What I'd like to know is what NOAA means >>by their statement [from the FAQ here: >>http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/staff/docs/FAQ%20lithographic%20cha >>rt%20announcement.pdf] >> >>that they have "neither the facilities, nor the budget, nor the >>appropriate authority, nor the expertise to stand up or contract for a >>print-stock-sell operation." >> >>I suppose it's a moot point, but how is it possible that the fed'l >>agency--the one in the charting business for two centuries, and one >>whose charts large vessels are required to possess--doesn't have the >>authority to print said charts? What's missing here? And who, btw, was >>printing Coast Survey charts before FAA took the job if it wasn't NOAA/OCS? >> >>mf >> >>-- >>Michael Fry >>Senior Map Librarian >>National Geographic Society >>1145 17th St. N.W. >>Washington, D.C. 20036 >>202.857.7098 >>[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >> >> >>On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 12:05 PM, Angie Cope, American Geographical >>Society Library, UW Milwaukee <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Have Lithographic Print Nautical Charts Gone Down >> With the Ship? >> Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 10:51:18 -0400 >> From: Holly Budd <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> >> To: <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> >> >> >> >> The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration has announced that >> to save money, the government will stop printing the traditional >> lithographic paper chart, that has been NOAA’s signature product, >> trusted by mariners, since President Thomas Jefferson asked for a >>survey >> of the coast in 1807. >> >> My commentary at my blog: Have Lithographic Print Nautical Charts Gone >> Down With the Ship? >> >>http://mapprinter.wordpress.__com/2013/10/25/have-__lithographic-print >>-nautical-__charts-gone-down-with-the-__ship/ >> >><http://mapprinter.wordpress.com/2013/10/25/have-lithographic-print-na >>> utical-charts-gone-down-with-the-ship/> >> >> Holly >> >> Holly Heintz Budd >> >> President/CEO >> >> Williams & Heintz Map Corporation >> >> 8119 Central Ave. >> >> Capitol Heights, MD 20743 >> >> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> >> >> http://whmap.com/ >> >> http://mapprinter.wordpress.__com/ >><http://mapprinter.wordpress.com/> >> >> https://www.facebook.com/whmap >> >> office: 800-338-6228 <tel:800-338-6228> >> >> cell: 443-975-4181 <tel:443-975-4181> >> >> >> >> >><mailto:[log in to unmask]> > ************************************************************************************** Russell Guy [log in to unmask] Omnimap.com http://www.omnimap.com P.O. Box 2096 Tel.: 800-742-2677 (USA only) 1004 South Mebane St. Tel.: 336-227-8300 (International) Burlington, NC 27216-2096 USA Fax: 336-227-3748 Past President (1996) and Member, International Map Trade Association **************************************************************************************