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Hi

 

I would agree about not asking the GPs too much about fitness for work.  I used to work for one of the big providers who did this in their standard template and were surprised when a few GPs replied in a rather snotty fashion stating “..surely that’s your job”.  Okay, they complete the Fit Notes but they had a point.  Stick to asking about condition, treatment, prognosis etc., and don’t be afraid to tell the GP what your plan is for RTW, adjusted duties or whatever.   They will be far more cooperative if they see you doing your job well, see that you are not trying to do their job and not expecting them to do yours.

 

Thanks

 

Lindsey

 

Lindsey Hall

Director and Independent Occupational Health Adviser

Split Dimension Ltd

Phone: 01454 852715

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From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of sharon naylor
Sent: 24 September 2013 09:48
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] advice required GP Consent

 

I use a standard letter template with a couple of free text area, that way all letters are more or less the same, ask the same questions so there are no surprises for the individual. Most of the time I send a copy to the employee, if someone wanted to see the letter before it went I would have no problem, its their right anyway.
 
Have to say that I rarely request reports unless its to support IHR, in my questions I rarely ask about "fitness for work" as you will likely get a biased answer and not much more info thats on the fit note. In my experience you get much more OH relevant info by asking about course and duration of presenting problem, an account of treatment, impending investigations etc, medication.
 

Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 04:29:27 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] advice required GP Consent
To: [log in to unmask]

Hi

you are sending off a standard letter with standard questions and under data access the subject can see any letter with their name on it so of course they can see the letter and if they choose to see the GP report before it is sent back to you they will see this also

Regards

Lynda 

Aberdeen

PS please remember new strand new header so we cane asily search archives

-----Original Message-----
From: Huyton, Karen (GE Aviation, Non-GE) (GE Aviation, Non-GE) <[log in to unmask]>
To: OCC-HEALTH <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 9:15
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] urgent advice required

Good morning

Apologies for change of conversation but this is my first venture on to the forum and I am hoping for some help and advice. I would like to know if when you apply to a Gp for access to medical and you are sending off your list of questions, do you automatically give the employee a copy before it is sent.? If you don’t and then later an employee then presents you with a personal request to see a copy of it , would you then give a copy.

I have never had this issue before and now I have two cases. One gentleman who gave access to medical and I sent the letter to Gp asking the usual relevant questions about fitness or work etc. he now several weeks later wants to see what I sent.

The other gentleman refuses to sign access to medical unless I show him what questions I am asking him GP first.

The unions are behind both cases. Whatever I do going forward is going to set a precedent. My HR says decision up to me?

 

regards

 

Karen Huyton

Occupational Health

 

Unison Engine Components - Burnley

1 Bentley Wood Way,

Network 65,

Hapton

Lancashire.

BB11 5TG

England

 

Direct Tel.  01282 478722

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From: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jacqui
Sent: 23 September 2013 18:16
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] urgent advice required

 

Hi Lorna I am not sure where you are in Cumbria - might help with responses- I venture into Yorkshire dales settle/skip ton/ ingleton- not much use if you are in cocker mouth! But if you are my end- contact me off list

Jacqui

Sent from my iPhone


On 23 Sep 2013, at 16:45, "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Thanks for that Carr and yes you are right. I think my inexperience and naivety has something to do with it ,i have asked on an earlier post if any more experienced OHAs would allow me to sit and observe particularly with reference to sickness absence managment I live in Cumbria and im prepared to travel. I hope there is someone out ther in Jisc land that can help

 

 

Thanks

Lorna

 

From: Tracy <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, 23 September 2013, 15:59
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] urgent advice required

 



Sent from my iPad


On 23 Sep 2013, at 15:54, Carr Barnes <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Hi again Lorna

Hope the meeting went ok? Your reasoning for advising further non weight bearing sounds sound so don't doubt that but maybe a learning point for future cases is to clarify the why behind the unfit/fit opinions e.g. "in my opinion Mr X requires further x days non weight bearing to allow further healing as to date healing remains slow; Mr X disclosed he ran a marathon at the weekend and I have advised him this likely aggravated his wound substantially and therfore may prolong absence."

Always be wary of declaring someone totally unfit; break it down as much as possible to provide options for adjusting duties.

On 23 Sep 2013 15:22, "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Hi Sharon

 

I take your point re fit enough to run a marathon etc however when i saw the wound i was concerned that if he did not rest the foot and he came back to work then it may have not healed and he would have been absent again perhaps for a longer period  Lesson learned though  i will stick to OHA and lose my practice nurse head and advise in future to seek assistance from primary or secondary care.

 

I have attended th investigatory meeting and am awaiting outcome

 

Thanks for you advice

Lorna

 

 

To all members of Jiscmail I work in Cumbria and would appreciate sitting in and observing a more experienced OHA particularly in relation to sickness/absence managment I am prepared to travel . I would appreciate your help in this matter

 

 

 

Thanks

Lorna

 

 

From: sharon naylor <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, 23 September 2013, 15:04
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] urgent advice required

 

Irrespective on how it was caused he can self cert for 7 days. I would agree with what others have said, its not for OH to be the absence police.
 
But I do have a query...am I to assume that he was absent from work? I am wondering how he got to see you in the first place, if it was as a result of a management referral then the normal rules apply, inc feedback to HR about likely RTW date etc, but with consent. If he was absent and came in to work to have his foot dressed (playing devils advocate here)  they may not be chuffed with you (for whom they pay) doing something in work time that supports further absence.
 
Much as its great he attempted a marathon pretty silly if he already had an injury/wound? HR may choose to class this as significantly contributing to his absence and may choose not to pay him. Again playing devils advocate (if I have this right) - he was absent from work with a foot injury, then ran on it, made it worse, he came into work, OH dressed it and stated that his absence should continue. From their point of view likely to be an unsatisfactory set of circumstances....if he was "fit" enough to run a marathon maybe (from their point of view) he should have been at work...
 

 

Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 14:01:12 +0100
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] urgent advice required
To: [log in to unmask]

Hi

A couple of things come to mind that you may want to bring to the meeting:

-If this guy self referred for dressing purposes then I would question whether there should have been feedback at all to HR as where is the informed consent?

- if it was a HR referral for assessment of fitness for work I can see why they may be concerned about potentially funding and supporting adjustments at work while employee is possibly not supporting their own recovery due to health beliefs, hobbies, behaviours etc. I often advise employees that I have to comment on any barriers as to why normal recovery time frames are not being met and clarify if the barriers are medical or non medical.

Go into the meeting seeing it as am opportunity to develop service. If self referrals are allowed this could be a prime case to illustrate their pitfalls not least that they preclude full appropriate reporting to employer by their nature.

Good luck

Carr

On 23 Sep 2013 13:07, "Helen Hannar" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

My immediate thoughts are that it is not an OH function to ascertain how the injury happened, unless there is a possible work related cause, that is the role of HR in absence management or H&S for accident investigations  we can advise on underlying issues etc

Did HR specifically ask if the injury was work related? Even if they did I would only have answered yes or no and advised it occurred external to work.  Also continue if he had provided consent for the information to be provided etc

Some companies do not pay sick pay for spotting injuries etc but it us not an OH function to decide upon that

As I say just my thoughts but I hope it helps

Sent from my iPhone

> On 23 Sep 2013, at 12:18, Lorna Huggon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Hi All
>
> I have to attend a meeting this afternoon with HR on why i did not divulge information on an employee in relation to manage his absence. This employye asked me to redress a wound on his foot as he was unable to see a practice nurse until 2 days later . This employee was already self certified i assessed the wound gave appropriate advice (used to be a practice nurse) and advised employer that he remained not fit for work. However in the dealing with this employee he mentioned he had completed a marathon the day before and i advsied that has probably contributed to the non healing of wound. My question is should i have infromed the employer that he had done this marathon (in his own time).;
>
> I appreciat e you advice in this matter
>
>
> Lorna
>
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