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As regular readers will have gathered, I have axes to grind on behalf of two professions. In my view written research (MRes or above) should be of publishable quality with respect to the writing as well as to the research, not least because it WILL be published, by being made available in institutional libraries (and probably the British Library, if a PhD). Very few people have sufficient technical skill to produce a document to professional publishing standards. That's why publishers employ (or should employ) copy-editors. To make the point more dramatically, I do have such skills - but still find errors in my PhD that went undetected before final acceptance. Fortunately they are indeed of a kind that might escape all but a professional copy-editor. (Of course, there may also be errors in the research, but if so they escaped the examiners . . . ) Julian Dr Julian Wells Director of Studies Economics staff web-page: http://fass.kingston.ac.uk/staff/cv.php?staffnum=287 personal web-site: http://staffnet.kingston.ac.uk/~ku32530 Principal lecturer in economics School of Economics, History and Politics Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences Kingston University Penrhyn Road Kingston-upon-Thames KT1 2EE United Kingdom +44 (0)20 8417 2341 From: Christopher Whyley [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Sent: 21 August 2013 16:14 To: Plagiarism; Wells, Julian Subject: Re: Translators and Proof Readers In my opinion it is fine for a student to ask for his errors to be pointed out, but not to ask for them to be corrected. A supervisor should do a lot of the first and a little of the second without being asked and without being paid. That's part of a supervisor's job surely? Chris On 21/08/2013 15:56, Wells, Julian wrote: Several points here: (1) It's a worry if any student (international or otherwise) has got the stage of being asked to write 35,000 words (MRes? MPhil?) without losing the habit of the various style crimes mentioned in the call (2) On the other hand, there's no way of telling what scale of problem is anticipated. If at least one of these varied sins is committed on every page, then see point (1) above. But perhaps the student is one of the "worried well", in which case see (4) below (3) Proof-reading a 35,000-word text to a professional standard is not a small job (and in the days when I worked in newspapers and publishing no-one was supposed to proof-read their own work). (4) Moreover, I used to find that there's a U-shaped curve relating percentage of errors detected to their density on the page (too many, or too few, errors make it harder to catch the ones that are there) Julian Dr Julian Wells Director of Studies Economics staff web-page: http://fass.kingston.ac.uk/staff/cv.php?staffnum=287 personal web-site: http://staffnet.kingston.ac.uk/~ku32530<http://staffnet.kingston.ac.uk/%7Eku32530> Principal lecturer in economics School of Economics, History and Politics Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences Kingston University Penrhyn Road Kingston-upon-Thames KT1 2EE United Kingdom +44 (0)20 8417 2341 From: Plagiarism [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Niels R. Walet Sent: 21 August 2013 15:19 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Translators and Proof Readers It does depend. Do they want this highlighted to them (i.e., where is it wrong) or corrected. The first is, I think, OK even though it probably violates some rule (most supervisors will normally do that anyway), the second is absolutely not. I suspect they are looking for the second, not the first: so that would be too far. Niels On 21/08/13 14:59, PENELOPE BOOTH wrote: My immeate reaction is - no, it is far too far. However, I wonder if anyone out there would argue that it is not more than what is normally done nowadays (yes, I know that doesn't make it 'right', I'm just saying it is what 'normally' happens. I wonder what the student expects to pay for this wonder-job......? From: Robert Clarke <[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Sent: Wednesday, 21 August 2013, 14:53 Subject: Re: Translators and Proof Readers Here is a typical posting on Freelancer. Does it represent a "legitimate" action by the student? I need someone to proofread an academic dissertation of 35,000 words. Level of English is already very good, just need to go through some details like : 1. Avoiding colloquial abbreviations. 2. Avoiding bombastic words when simple ones do. 3. Avoiding using the same word over and over again. 4. Avoiding a conversational tone. 5. Use a more academic style of writing, by using 'we' instead of 'I', for instance.- improve style and tone. Material will be submitted in parts within the next few days. Deadline for the whole job is Wednesday 28th August. I'm attaching the first chapter here. KINDLY PROOF READ THE FIRST FIVE TO TEN PAGES AS A SAMPLE OF YOUR WORK ************************************************************************* You are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe, change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html ************************************************************************* ************************************************************************* You are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe, change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html ************************************************************************* -- Prof. Niels R. Walet Phone: +44(0)1613063693 School of Physics and Astronomy Fax: +44(0)1613064303 The University of Manchester Mobile: +44(0)7905438934 Manchester, M13 9PL, UK room 7.7, Schuster Building email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> web: http://www.theory.physics.manchester.ac.uk/~mccsnrw<http://www.theory.physics.manchester.ac.uk/%7Emccsnrw> This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ************************************************************************* You are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe, change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html ************************************************************************* This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ************************************************************************* You are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe, change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html ************************************************************************* This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email Security System. ************************************************************************* You are subscribed to the JISC Plagiarism mailing list. To Unsubscribe, change your subscription options, or access list archives, visit http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/PLAGIARISM.html *************************************************************************