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one additional note: I've recognized that most of you are coming from an industrial or product design background. That influences the discussion. I'm from a graphic design background, studied visual communication and wanted to become an illustrator initially. Now I'm chewing program codes every day although design is still present in my work. I totally agree that the pressure on designers to justify themselfes is very high and I understand the frustration that lead to the comment on sociologist and historians. I can speek only for the german design scene but the situation is even worse here. We are competing against an increasing amount of marketing people and digital media designers (bad translation of the job profile because it includes design). While the marketing people behave like Kraken and try to manage everything without the ability to judge visual communication work, the digital media designers are just servants for enterpreneurs who are used to dictate the direction. Unfortunately the average person can't tell the difference in our profiles and in the quality of our work. In my eyes the major problem is the definition of a designer. In Germany everyone can call himself a designer. Even my plumber could do it. Or the thai lady at the nail design studio. It is prohibited to call yourself an engineer, doctor or architect but to call yourself a designer is totally allright because we are seen on one level with artists. This is also reflected in my income. The German government invests into the education of academic designers in the hope of an ROI in higher taxes but at the same time they have opened the market for everyone by denying the worth of our title. I could show you statics about the income of german designers which would make you cry. Basically they read like 'wages are ok but I can't afford a family'. This would be enough to warn younger people of becoming a designer. One additional reason would be the structure of our education. We are trained at universities whose curriculas are always behind the actual market demands. When I graduated six years ago the market demanded completely different things than I was trained for. The abilites I got at university weren't needed. Not to speak about the market nowaday. This would be ok if there were enough mandates for us but even on an academical level we are to many people for the work. In this situation I would like to burn everyone who uses the title "Designer" without "permission". Am 23.08.2013 11:47, schrieb victor.martinez: > Absolutely agree, > > There is only one distinction to be made, externalisation in order to communicate ideas to third parties or as part of the search in the problem space to build those ideas? (Goldschmidt, G 1997). My point is that Gero (previously cited) gave us evidence that you can build excellent ideas without the need of sketching, communicating those ideas to others is another matter, evidently essential in practice. > > As project managers and/or industrial design lecturers our interest I suppose is in the search for those great game-changing ideas, not discriminating a priori because a lack of communication skills, which can be developed. > > best regards, > > > Victor G. Martinez > > Post Graduate Researcher > Centre for Design Research > Department of Design > Faculty of Arts, Design and Social Sciences > Northumbria University > > www.trophec.com > www.vgmtheory.com > > > Please think if your really need to print this email > > > Goldschimdt, G. (1997). "Capturing indeterminism: representation in the design problem space." Design studies 18: 441-445 > > ________________________________________ > From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Mark Evans [[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 10:24 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Must a designer be trained as a designer? > > Holly > > I accept that capability to sketch (externalise with a high level of efficiency/meaning) will vary between the visually creative design disciplines. For my field of industrial design, this can be a particularly challenging skill to master but is central to being an competent and employable practitioner. From what I have seen of the work from other disciplines, sketching still remains a distinctive and core capability for the designer. > > Thanks > > Mark > > ________________________________________ > From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of McQuillan, Holly [[log in to unmask]] > Sent: 23 August 2013 09:54 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Must a designer be trained as a designer? > > Hi Mark > I can probably agree generally with your comments (I think, I might need to ponder them for a bit longer) except for one point. > > You write: > "I also espouse that if you can’t sketch, you’re not a designer." > > I don't generally sketch, and don't claim any talent in it at all. But I'm still a designer. There are many other ways of "externalising complex, beautiful and ingenious design solutions" in my experience. Unless you mean 'sketch' in the very broadest sense I do not agree. > > Holly McQuillan > School of Design > CoCA > Massey University. > www.hollymcquillan.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> > Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design > Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> > Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design > Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > This e-mail is intended solely for the addressee. It may contain private and confidential information. If you are not the intended addressee, please take no action based on it nor show a copy to anyone. Please reply to this e-mail to highlight the error. You should also be aware that all electronic mail from, to, or within Northumbria University may be the subject of a request under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and related legislation, and therefore may be required to be disclosed to third parties. > > This e-mail and attachments have been scanned for viruses prior to leaving Northumbria University. Northumbria University will not be liable for any losses as a result of any viruses being passed on. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> > Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design > Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------------------------------------------- PhD-Design mailing list <[log in to unmask]> Discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design Subscribe or Unsubscribe at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/phd-design -----------------------------------------------------------------