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Although I accept that the beginnings and endings of archaeological periods are (and always have been) fuzzy. I'm with Mike on this. It's always best to try to avoid confusion on the behalf of members of the public. Chris From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Shaw Sent: 14 August 2013 12:37 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Period LUT Sarah, I don't agree with this I'm afraid. I'm sure we all recognise that one particular period did not end and a new one start at a particular date. However the overlapping of periods on Heritage Gateway causes unnecessary problems which could be easily resolved without need for an awkward work around by searching on AD409 rather than AD410 etc. Martin Newman's e-mail seemed to suggest that DSU had accepted this so Heritage Gateway and DSU would seem to be out of step on this. I think that this is an important point which should be discussed more widely than on HBSMR Users so I have copied in HER Forum also to give all HER Officers an opportunity to comment. Regards, Mike Mike Shaw Archaeologist, Education & Enterprise Tel. Office: 01902 555493 E-mail: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Wolverhampton City Council From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of MACLEAN, Sarah Sent: 14 August 2013 11:51 To: 'List for users of the HBSMR software' Subject: Re: [hbsmrusers] Period LUT Dear all, I have passed on the comments with regards periods on Heritage Gateway to Mandy Roberts, Heritage Gateway and Access to Designation Data Manager. Mandy has responded with the following:- This overlap is intended to reflect the fact that although periods are convenient for classification purposes, each one did not end 'overnight', so some flexibility is needed. I appreciate that this could cause confusion for some users of the Heritage Gateway, but suggest that we have provided a clear indication of the dates associated with each period, which clearly demonstrate the overlap. Removal of these does carry a (small) risk that some results could be excluded. however, we appreciate that some users may not find this approach suitable, and that is why on the same page, we offer the ability to search by date range instead. In effect, we have tried to ensure that users can search by either method, according to their needs. I do feel that this is currently the most appropriate solution, taking into account user requirements and different views of data providers. If you have any comments or feedback from users of the Heritage Gateway please don't forget to contact Mandy directly. Also don't forget that Heritage Gateway Data Providers now have their own e-mail list for discussing these sort of issues. all the best Sarah ________________________________ From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dingwall, Lucie Sent: 14 August 2013 10:27 To: 'List for users of the HBSMR software' Subject: Re: [hbsmrusers] Period LUT Hi Mike Melissa and myself have also in the past raised this problem caused by the overlap in the period start and end dates with the Heritage Gateway team. At the last Heritage Gateway meeting that I went to (which was back in December 2012), I think we were told that this would be addressed as part of the overall re-design of the Heritage Gateway, but I don't know what the timescale is for this. Maybe somebody else has a more recent update on this situation, as there have been HG meetings since that I have not been able to attend ? Thanks Lucie Lucie Dingwall BA MSc MIFA Historic Environment Record Officer Economic, Environment and Cultural Services Herefordshire Council PO Box 230 Blueschool House Blueschool Street HEREFORD HR1 2ZB Tel: 01432 260130 Fax: 01432 261802 E-mail: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> web: www.herefordshire.gov.uk/htt/<http://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/htt/> From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Crispin Flower Sent: 13 August 2013 12:19 To: List for users of the HBSMR software Subject: Re: [hbsmrusers] Period LUT Hi Mike You are correct that this (in combination with the overlap search behaviour I described in my other message) results in Gateway searches often returning records from "adjacent" periods, e.g. Roman finding Early Med because ending at 410. Removing the overlaps from the date ranges in the Heritage Gateway period searches (behind the scenes) would be one way of resolving this. Changing the searches to retrieve only records matching or entirely within the range would be another. The latter would be harder to implement, as requires change at every spoke, rather than just the hub. Yours Crispin From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf Of Mike Shaw Sent: 13 August 2013 12:01 To: List for users of the HBSMR software Cc: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: [hbsmrusers] Period LUT Martin's reply got me quite excited! At last it appeared that EH had accepted that an overlap between period dates caused problems. Hence I eagerly opened up Heritage Gateway to look at the new non-overlap dates but my hopes were dashed! DSU may accept it causes problems but Heritage Gateway do not. We are still in a position where Prehistoric runs to AD43, Roman starts at AD43 and runs to AD410 and Early Medieval runs from AD410 etc so that any search for Roman features also brings up Prehistoric and Early Medieval etc etc. If DSU accepts that this is a problem why cannot it be fixed for Heritage Gateway? It must be around 5 years since I first pointed this out and I did ask the question at the last Heritage Gateway User Meeting. Rant over! Mike Mike Shaw Archaeologist, Education & Enterprise Tel. Office: 01902 555493 E-mail: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Wolverhampton City Council From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf Of NEWMAN, Martin Sent: 13 August 2013 11:11 To: 'List for users of the HBSMR software' Subject: Re: [hbsmrusers] Period LUT I've just consulted my colleagues in DSU and the dates originate from RCHME recording practice in the 1990s but with overlaps removed as this caused issues for system. Martin ________________________________ From: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf Of EDWARDS, Robert (Environment) Sent: 13 August 2013 10:33 To: 'List for users of the HBSMR software' Subject: [hbsmrusers] Period LUT Hi, I'm sure I should really know the answer for this, but where do the dates used in the PeriodLUT table come from? I know the period list was originally presented in Recording England's Past: A Data Standard for the Extended National Archaeological Record, but this doesn't seem to include the date range. Thanks Rob Rob Edwards Historic Environment Records Officer Cheshire Archaeology Planning Advisory Service Tel: 01244 973667 Email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Location: The Forum, Chester, Cheshire, CH1 2HS. ************************************************************************ Disclaimer: If you are not the intended recipient of this email (and any attachment), please inform the sender by return email and destroy all copies. Unauthorised access, use, disclosure, storage or copying is not permitted. The views expressed by the author do not necessarily reflect the views or policies of Cheshire West and Chester Borough Council. The Council cannot guarantee that this message or any attachment is virus free or has not been intercepted and amended. You should perform your own virus checks. Cheshire West and Chester Borough Council may monitor emails and as a public sector organisation; the Council may disclose this email (or any response to it) under the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Contracts cannot be concluded with the Council nor service effected by email, unless otherwise expressly agreed. The contents of this e-mail may be subject to privilege. ************************************************************************ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of English Heritage unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system and notify the sender immediately. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it. Any information sent to English Heritage may become publicly available. Portico: your gateway to information on sites in the National Heritage Collection; have a look and tell us what you think. http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/archives-and-collections/portico/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: This email and files transmitted are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you may not copy, disclose, distribute or use it in any unauthorised manner. If you have received this email in error please notify us by email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> and then delete it and any attachments accompanying it. Please note that Wolverhampton City Council cannot guarantee that this message or any attachments are virus free or have not been intercepted and amended. Any views or opinions expressed within this email are those of the author and may not necessarily reflect those of Wolverhampton City Council and no contractual arrangement is intended to arise from this communication. --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Any opinion expressed in this e-mail or any attached files are those of the individual and not necessarily those of Herefordshire Council, Herefordshire Clinical Commissioning Group (HCCG), Wye Valley NHS Trust or 2gether NHS Foundation Trust. You should be aware that Herefordshire Council, Herefordshire Clinical Commissioning Group (HCCG), Wye Valley NHS Trust & 2gether NHS Foundation Trust monitors its email service. This e-mail and any attached files are confidential and intended solely for the use of the addressee. This communication may contain material protected by law from being passed on. 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Portico: your gateway to information on sites in the National Heritage Collection; have a look and tell us what you think. http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/archives-and-collections/portico/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: This email and files transmitted are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, or the person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you may not copy, disclose, distribute or use it in any unauthorised manner. If you have received this email in error please notify us by email to [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> and then delete it and any attachments accompanying it. Please note that Wolverhampton City Council cannot guarantee that this message or any attachments are virus free or have not been intercepted and amended. Any views or opinions expressed within this email are those of the author and may not necessarily reflect those of Wolverhampton City Council and no contractual arrangement is intended to arise from this communication. ---------------------------------------------------------------------