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Someone might have already said this, but the ‘linguistic influence’ was available from the start via David Gascoyne – both his translations and his own early poetry. Robert From: British & Irish poets [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tim Allen Sent: 08 August 2013 12:30 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: "What’s in a Name?: The Art & Language Group and Conceptual Poetry" Yes, that's true, the surrealist tinge that got to some of the deep image stuff was, linguistically speaking, mild, but there was an important exception where the influence went all the way: Philip Lamantia. But even his things were largely a visual surrealism transposed into words, as was most of the work of the English surrealists as well. Some people may not agree with me on this and there were, again, a few exceptions where it took a more language turn, but they are quite obscure names now - I'll have to look them up again. The more linguistic influence came later when people like the Waldrops etc began translating.The whole French thing had a huge impact on Ashbery as it did here with Lee Harwood. Tim A. On 7 Aug 2013, at 19:11, Jaime Robles wrote: Another example might be the Surrealists. In the US this is thought of as a visual art movement, while in fact it was a verbal art movement to begin with, with heated discussions on whether it was even possible for the movement's tenets to be used in visual art. Because French is not the predominant language in the US, the verbal aspect of Surrealism was almost completely lost in its transAtlantic migration.