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Maybe the TNA/ARA 'Explore Your Archive' campaign could in part be put to good use raising government awareness (by which of course I mean funding!)? :) All the best, Barbara Barbara Vesey Archivist Society of the Sacred Heart | Barat House | 98 Roehampton Lane | London | SW15 5SB [log in to unmask] | Tel: +44 (0) 20 8876 9880 THE ARCHIVES ARE OPEN FOR RESEARCHERS Wednesdays and Thursdays, 10 a.m. to 4 p.m., and by appointment at other times On 15 August 2013 10:30, Elizabeth Oxborrow-Cowan <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Which begs the questions – why can't working in an archive count as a > mandatory work placement? It certainly can tick all sorts of boxes re > skills acquirement etc. Do we as a profession need to poke the government > about this one? > > Regards > > Elizabeth > > Elizabeth Oxborrow-Cowan Msc, MIC, RMARA > Consultant Archivist and Director > > Elizabeth Oxborrow-Cowan Associates > 01939 234289/ 07719 609894 > [log in to unmask] > > > From: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> > Reply-To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]> > Date: Thursday, 15 August 2013 10:11 > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: A few perspectives... > > Unpaid internships are the worst excess of all of the issues that plague > entering the archives profession and I think the proposal for people > receiving benefit to be able to undertake voluntary work is great, > particularly now that people who are signing on for jobseekers for any > amount of time are compelled to take a mandatory work placement, which can > be pretty depressing to say the least. > > Amelia > From: Nicola Waddington <[log in to unmask]> > To: [log in to unmask] > Sent: Thursday, 15 August 2013, 9:23 > Subject: Interns debate, Solutions > > Dear All, > We all talk a lot about whether or not internships are affordable for the > candidate and whether they are fair or not for people without a private > income. The same debate is live in both the museum and arts worlds too. I > wonder if any research has been done into the current rules of job seekers > allowance? Would the rules allow for someone to undertake a part time unpaid > internship for a fixed period? If so could we perhaps design the > internships we offer to accommodate people who receive the benefit, and who > could thus undertake voluntary experience without losing money? Could this > perhaps be a research project for ARA, or be looked into by the Section for > New Professionals? > It could be a productive approach to an age old debate. > Nicola Waddington > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Archivists, conservators and records managers. > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Meic Pierce Owen > Sent: 15 August 2013 09:03 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Vacancy for Archives and Records Management Intern, Solutions > > I understand the argument being put up against this unpaid internship being > offered. I understand it but I do not agree with it. > > To offer an internship on its own terms is surely the business of the body > offering the internship? Equally, if someone wishes to take it up, that is > surely that person's business? If it does not suit anyone, the offer will > not be taken up. It is a classic case of 'let the market decide'. If this > sort of opportunity were the only sort on offer it would be one thing, but > as it is not, I suggest we climb off our high horses and allow people to > offer and accept as suits them. > > I strongly agree that, as a profession, we need to do what we can to ensure > that those at all levels earn a living wage and indeed, those of us around > before the millennium will remember the appalling salaries being offered to > recently-qualifieds before the then SOA put its foot down (I believe) and > refused to take adverts offering under particular salary rates. > > I further think we should be pleased both that so many are looking to enter > the Profession and that pre-course positions are available. > > We cannot however, get involved in the business of trying to impose quotas > on academic institutions. If people wish to study, who are we to say no?- > just so long as we are not giving a false impression to people as to the > numbers of jobs available. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Archivists, conservators and records managers. > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pamela Birch > Sent: 15 August 2013 08:05 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Vacancy for Archives and Records Management Intern, Solutions > > Bedford BC Not Protectively Marked. > > > Thanks Joseph, you summed up my feelings on this nicely. > > > > Having spent this year looking at the history of Bedfordshire Record Office > I would also point out that it was an 'independently wealthy, well > intentioned, do-gooder' who managed to kick start the profession of > archivist (in local government terms at least) 100 years ago by founding a > county record office and providing on the job training, something he > continued to do until his death in 1940. > > > > Pamela Birch > Conservator/Premises & Projects Officer > > Bedfordshire & Luton Archives & Records Service > 800 years of history, 100 years of service. Centenary 2013. Help us > celebrate www.bedford.gov.uk/archivecentenary > <http://www.bedford.gov.uk/archivecentenary> > > Open: Mon 9am-7pm, Tues, Wed & Fri 9am-5pm. Closed Thursday. > Tel: 01234 228908 (direct line) 01234 228833 (main office) > www.bedfordshire.gov.uk/archive Twitter @BedsArchives > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Archivists, conservators and records managers. > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joseph Bartoletti > Sent: 14 August 2013 18:09 > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Vacancy for Archives and Records Management Intern, Solutions > > > > > I feel compelled to offer another side to this debate. Since this argument > is continually used again and again, can someone tell me what profession > enforces a quota on University placements? I'm going to have to say none. At > the end of the day Universities are in the business of teaching and > academia, nothing more. While they may have some indirect concern with the > number of graduates employed six months after graduation (looks good in > stats) they are not there to rig the job market. If they have turned out > more quality candidates than the market can accept, well bad for some of the > graduates but good for the profession. > > Also, 'independently wealthy, well intentioned, do-gooders' are not a new > incarnation due to the current economic climate. They were in fact the > cornerstones for much of the museum profession. > > Some direct points to Craig's 'simple solutions'. > > 1. Decide on a set number of students to be admitted to the > archive schools each year. Any archives school that admits more than their > quota should lose their accreditation. > Again, this has been stated over and over in the past. State exactly > how this should be done accurately. Continually monitor the job market for > anyone retiring or changing professions? Adequately gauging this year after > year is not pragmatic. Again, the job of the Universities is to turn out > qualified suitable candidates. Every degree / profession have people who for > whatever reason go into another field and there are more people who work in > fields different to their degrees than those that do. I spent eight months > unemployed shortly after finishing my course and never once did I blame the > number of graduates. > I had many near misses and always lost out to experience. Certainly not the > Uni's fault. > 2. Legally define and protect the term 'archivist'. Define the > term to mean someone who has a recognised qualification from one of the > archive schools. > Not possible and nor should it be. Even if it was, then what? > Maybe instead of the term 'archivist' organizations will just use titles > like 'Keepers of Old Info and Stuff'. Plus what about all those > professionals who do not have a degree and have done WAY more for the > profession than most with the piece of paper? I guess there's no room > anymore for anyone rising up through the ranks of the profession without a > degree. > 3. Legally require all organisations subject to Section 46 - > Freedom of Information Act to employ an archivist. > You're leaving out people who have specifically done records > management degrees. > 4. The ICO should produce guidelines strongly advising the > retention of a qualified archivist in the role of an organisations > designated Data Protection Officer. > Why? What does the qualification of archivist bring to this role? I > am a qualified archivist (so my piece of paper tells me) and have a BCS Cert > in DPA. I do not agree that having the former was a huge factor in earning > the latter. If any argument can be made it is that the role should be taken > on by someone with a degree in law not archives management. > > Maybe people should stop blaming the Universities and move on to > something more productive? Society has gone information mad, and so there > should be no shortage of opportunities. We need to better fight the > information profession's corner and prove its worth. > > A good example is when a coursemate applied for a job at a school. > The job advert screamed 'Archivist', but the title was far from that. Not > one of the candidates who landed an interview had any experience or > qualification in archives. I'm sure many more have stories similar, and > while I know I don't have the answers, I do know that 'excessive' amounts of > graduates is not the problem. > > It should go without saying that the views express are entirely my > own and not my employer's. > > > Sincerely, > > Joseph Bartoletti > Corporate Records Management Officer > > Legal and Democratic Services > > ________________________________ > > Any opinions or statements expressed in this e-mail are those of the > individual and not necessarily those of Middlesbrough Council. Internet > communications are not secure and therefore Middlesbrough Council does not > accept legal responsibility for the contents of this message as it has been > transmitted over a public network. If you suspect the message may have been > intercepted or amended, please call the sender. > > This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are confidential, may be > legally privileged, and are solely for the use of the intended recipient. 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