 |
 |
Yes, day was inevitable(& understandable) that my message would be in (mis)read in that way (Despite my explicit assumption that you are not consciously sexist or racist). my point was that certain modes of discourse perpetuate certain structural inequalities. My point was not that you are racist… & Alison Croggon's statement is indeed, as she herself just pointed out, so obviously ironic it should be a textbook example of verbal irony. Your reaction and this whole situation would be an example of situational irony... >________________________________ > From: David Lace <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 3:39 PM >Subject: Re: Salt poetry editor Roddy Lumsden’s comments about the BritPo list. > > >Alison Croggon already accused her of egomania before me. You obviously like to cherry pick things. And bringing racism into it discredits your reasoning abilities. Croggon said: > >“Come Geraldine, obviously any woman pointing out she was overlooked has no reason to say so aside from egomania. It's not as if women are routinely overlooked or anything.” > >https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A2=ind1307&L=BRITISH-IRISH-POETS&F=&S=&X=6383913C812232F6B1&Y=osris%40mail.com&P=121616 > > > >-----------------------Original Message------------------------------------- > >excuse my sudden appearance from my usual standby mode, but just wanted to vehemently second Alison Croggon's sentiment. And not only were your comments mean-minded and ungenerous, David Lace, they represent the kind of thinking that perpetuate precisely the problem that Geraldine Monk was signalling in the first place. Arguing over adjectives (the use of "beautiful") and demanding that Geraldine provide a list of female poets, instead of trying to contribute something productive. > > >Women always have been and still are horrifically repressed, and written out of history (the latter was Geraldine's point here no?). Denying this or assuming Geraldine had some ulterior motive just reeks of the way many Americans like to discuss race relations, denying the systemic violence against young black men (as well as other denominations and women of course). > > >Sorry David Lace, do not get me wrong, I am sure you are not misogynist, sexist, or racist (although apparently all people have some latent racist tendency), but your last messages show no personal insight, empathy, and do no service whatsoever to further a productive discussion concerning the position of women, women poets, or concerning poetry at all for that matter. > > > Jeroen > > > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 3:06 PM >Subject: Re: Salt poetry editor Roddy Lumsden’s comments about the BritPo list. > > >Wow David, you really do enjoy attempting to throw the least generous light over people, don't you? I'm with those who find this mean-mindedness singularly depressing. > >Sent from my iPhone > >On 21/07/2013, at 10:49 PM, David Lace <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > >> I was puzzled by "then my beautiful Ghost & Other Sonnets" which only mentions the "my" not Salt's prodution job on the manuscript itself. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----------------Original Message------------------- >> >> >> I was trying to sing the praises of Salt in the bit you quoted, often >> Selected poems can be meager but the published all my longer poems which I >> was thrilled to have furthermore I meant the PRODUCTION of Ghost sonnets was >> beautiful not the poems themselves (which I rather like if that's a crime >> then I'm guiltily) , I don't review my own work I leave that to others, >> but if it pleases you to think the worst of me please carry on. As for >> modesty - it can go feck itself - sorry if you find that objectionable in a >> woman but quite frankly my dear I don't give a damn. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "David Lace" <[log in to unmask]> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 12:38 PM >> Subject: Re: Salt poetry editor Roddy Lumsden’s comments about the BritPo >> list. >> >> >> Yes, but you single yourself out, and not modestly either: >> >> "One of Salt's earliest publications was a very substantial Selected Poems >> of mine followed by the Companion (ed by Scott Thurston) and then my >> beautiful Ghost & Other Sonnets. I'm also almost 61 years of age so you'd >> think I'd qualify for Tony's list below more than some he mentions but no - >> it's all blokes." >> >> >> Are there no other women also with "substantia"l selected poems" and other >> works that are also "beautiful" you could have mentioned by name? Just >> asking. >> >> >> >> >> ----------------Original Message----------------- >> >> I'm sure I meant 'other women' otherwise I wouldn't have written 'other >> women'. Does that answer your question? >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "David Lace" <[log in to unmask]> >> To: <[log in to unmask]> >> Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2013 11:01 AM >> Subject: Re: Salt poetry editor Roddy Lumsden’s comments about the BritPo >> list. >> >> >> Are you sure Geraldine that you do mean all other women or just yourself >> being left out of the list Tony made? Just asking. >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------Original Message------------------------ >> >> Aw alright Tony I'll forgive you even though you start off by saying you'd >> forgotten my Selected! But it is a point worth making every so often about >> the way women are so often not included on roll-calls in Britain. The >> accusation of gloating wasn't directed towards you, apologies if I gave you >> that impression but for others who seem extremely harsh and cynical towards >> Chris and Jen who worked their socks off to make Salt what it was/is. >> >> Aw Randolph - it was inevitable - I couldn't help but laugh!! >> >> Gx >> >> >> Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink >> >> > >