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Robert, I agree about the one time pad. That is the only way to be truly secure, well, as secure as it is possible to be. But what an inconvenience. Probably why they have been used only in special circumstances. Thanks for the reference. Paul, the best inference from this study seems to be that we would all be better off were women running things with men staying at home taking care of the garden. Larry ------ Original Message ------ From: "Moore, Robert" <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: 10/06/2013 17:50:33 Subject: Re: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public archives >My understanding is that encryption is only absolutely secure if you >have an early version of a Public Key Encryption program. After a >certain date the US government ruled that PGP (for example) could not >be exported unless it was in theory crackable by the NSA. So these >programs were covered by the export of munitions legislation in the >USA. There has been some to-ing and fro-ing over this , so I'm not sure >what the current state of the US law is. PGP has been improved over the >years and some loopholes plugged (so much for earlier versions), but I >don't think it would be exportable from the USA if there wasn't some >way into it for the NSA. The NSA might, for example, require a >trap-door into any strong encryption program - I just don't know. The >original restriction was on the length of the key. > In theory this stuff can not be decrypted with contemporary >technology. But the use of the world's most powerful computers to crack >routine private encrypted traffic would be an enormous waste of >resources - much easier for the spooks to secrete a key-logger in your >PC and read the plain text! Also if you use one of the Public key >programs in the UK, under RIPA you can be required to disclose your key >- and it would be a criminal offence then to tell anyone that this had >happened. >One Time Pad probably guarantees total security, providing you do it by >hand and not on a PC. But unless you're a 'rogue state' or a known >target then it would all be a waste of your time. > >But if you just want to protect some data, maybe names and addresses of >respondents - go ahead. > >The following is interesting: > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy > > > >Robert > > > >Professor Robert Moore >School of Sociology and Social Policy >Eleanor Rathbone Building >The University of Liverpool >L69 7ZA > >Telephone and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456 >________________________________________ >From: email list for Radical Statistics [[log in to unmask]] on >behalf of the.Duke.of.URL [[log in to unmask]] >Sent: 10 June 2013 16:38 >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public archives > >How to keep others from spying on you. > >http://www.businessinsider.com/how-keep-the-feds-from-listening-2013-6 > >Public key encryption is the only really safe way to communicate these >days but it is a terrific hassle and for most people isn't worth it. Of >course, if you are going to use this technique, you will have to choose >two very large prime numbers to begin with. It goes without saying I >think that unless everyone does this at about the same time, anyone >doing this will immediately become a target. > > >Larry > >------ Original Message ------ >From: "Wells, Julian" <[log in to unmask]> >To: [log in to unmask] >Sent: 10/06/2013 15:11:38 >Subject: Re: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public archives >>I'm in favour of keeping the RADSTATS archive open, for the following >>reasons: >> >>(1) as others have pointed out, if GCHQ or the CIA want to read them, >>JISCmail's privacy settings are unlikely to prove an obstacle. >> >>(2) it's a public discussion list, which anyone can subscribe >>themselves >>to, so the discussions ought to be a matter of public record. >> >>Best wishes, >> >>Julian >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On 10/06/2013 13:49, "Macfarlane, Alison" <[log in to unmask]> >>wrote: >> >>>Please see the bottom email in the trail. This came from jiscmail >>>last >>>week. Another email list I look after was keen to be private, but its >>>members are in a different situation from Radstats. So far we have >>>heard >>>from very few members, but these include people who have replied >>>several >>>times. >>> >>>If no one has replied by the end of today to say they want it kept >>>private, I will change it back. >>> >>>Best wishes, Alison >>> >>>Alison >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Humphrey Southall [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >>>Sent: 10 June 2013 13:35 >>>To: [log in to unmask] >>>Subject: Re: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public >>>archives >>> >>>I am trying to get my head round this change: >>> >>>Given that JISCmail is funded entirely by the UK government via JISC, >>>a >>>government agency, and hosted on servers at the University of >>>Newcastle >>>in the UK. it is hard to see how another UK government agency, GCHQ, >>>needs assistance from a US company to eavesdrop on our discussions >>>.... >>> >>>Conversely, it is not hard to see how there is public access to >>>Google's >>>indices -- and there are other search engines. >>> >>>I agree there should be a vote on re-opening the list archive, as >>>they >>>are now closed, presumably as a result of Alison changing the setting >>>(I >>>just checked). I suppose there should also be a vote on moving it to >>>an >>>encrypted server somewhere outside the control of the UK and US >>>governments, if people are seriously concerned about who can access >>>it; >>>but having them on a UK-government funded server but closing them to >>>stop >>>GCHQ seeing them doesn't make any sense. >>> >>>Best wishes, >>> >>>Humphrey >>> >>>On 10 Jun 2013, at 12:42, Paul Ashton <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>> >>>> To discover the majority view, wouldn't it be necessary to poll >>>>members? >>>> >>>> Paul Ashton >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Alison Macfarlane" <[log in to unmask]> >>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>> Sent: Monday, 10 June, 2013 12:32:34 PM >>>> Subject: Re: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public >>>> archives >>>> >>>> It's debatable whether Google /GCHQ make their booty public, >>>>though, >>>>isn't it? Having said that, if there is a majority which wants the >>>>setting changed back to public, this is easily done. >>>> >>>> Alison >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Paul Ashton [mailto:[log in to unmask]] >>>> Sent: 10 June 2013 12:20 >>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>> Subject: Re: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public >>>> archives >>>> >>>> It's ironic, if not actually amusing, that academics who >>>>constantly >>>>demand that we have 'open government' and transparent dealings from >>>>various organisations and companies should now be hiding themselves >>>>from >>>>public gaze. >>>> >>>> Paul Ashton >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "Alison Macfarlane" <[log in to unmask]> >>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>> Sent: Monday, 10 June, 2013 11:39:35 AM >>>> Subject: FW: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public >>>> archives >>>> >>>> Following the warnings sent out by jiscmail last week, I have gone >>>>through the lists of which I am listowner and changed the >>>>configuration >>>>of archives from public to private. This means that list archives >>>>can >>>>only be viewed by members and not by whoever is in league with >>>>google >>>>and its cronies. >>>> >>>> Please let me know if this causes any problems. >>>> >>>> Alison Macfarlane >>>> >>>> >>>> Subject: Message from JISCMail Helpline: lists with public >>>>archives >>>> >>>> Dear subscribers >>>> >>>> We've had a lot of queries recently about the availability and >>>>visibility of JISCMail list archives in Google. >>>> >>>> This is just a reminder that messages sent to a list with public >>>>archives will be available to anyone on the internet. >>>> >>>> Your email will not be visible to non-subscribers, but remember if >>>>you >>>>reply to the list there may be information in your message which >>>>will >>>>be >>>>visible, such as your signature or attachments. >>>> >>>> This list is configured with public archives. >>>> >>>> JISCMail public list data has been available to search engines for >>>>many >>>>years. List owners choose whether their archives are public or >>>>private, >>>>so if you have any queries about whether a list should have public >>>>archives, then contact the list owner (see >>>>http://bit.ly/ContactListOwner for details). >>>> >>>> Public list archives are an important and useful source of >>>>information >>>>to the communities that we support, they enable wider collaboration >>>>across educational research, learning, teaching and support networks >>>>and >>>>encourage new members. >>>> >>>> We hope this makes the situation clearer. >>>> >>>> >>>> Lisa >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Lisa Vincent >>>> >>>> Operations Manager >>>> [log in to unmask] >>>> 0191 222 8179 >>>> >>>> JISCMail is a JISC Advance Service >>>> >>>> ****************************************************** >>>> Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will >>>>go >>>>only to the sender of this message. >>>> If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's >>>>'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to >>>>[log in to unmask] >>>> Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the >>>>sender >>>>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views >>>>held >>>>by >>>>subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about >>>>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and >>>>past >>>>issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site >>>>www.radstats.org.uk. >>>> ******************************************************* >>>> >>>> ****************************************************** >>>> Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will >>>>go >>>>only to the sender of this message. >>>> If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's >>>>'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to >>>>[log in to unmask] >>>> Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the >>>>sender >>>>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views >>>>held >>>>by >>>>subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about >>>>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and >>>>past >>>>issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site >>>>www.radstats.org.uk. >>>> ******************************************************* >>>> >>>> >>>> ****************************************************** >>>> Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will >>>>go >>>>only to the sender of this message. >>>> If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's >>>>'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to >>>>[log in to unmask] >>>> Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the >>>>sender >>>>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views >>>>held >>>>by >>>>subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about >>>>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and >>>>past >>>>issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site >>>>www.radstats.org.uk. >>>> ******************************************************* >>>> >>>> >>>> ****************************************************** >>>> Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will >>>>go >>>> only to the sender of this message. >>>> If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's >>>> 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to >>>> [log in to unmask] >>>> Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the >>>>sender >>>>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views >>>>held >>>>by >>>>subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about >>>>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and >>>>past >>>>issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site >>>>www.radstats.org.uk. >>>> ******************************************************* >>>> >>>> >>>> ****************************************************** >>>> Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will >>>>go >>>> only to the sender of this message. >>>> If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's >>>> 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to >>>> [log in to unmask] >>>> Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the >>>>sender >>>>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views >>>>held >>>>by >>>>subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about >>>>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and >>>>past >>>>issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site >>>>www.radstats.org.uk. >>>> ******************************************************* >>> >>>****************************************************** >>>Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will go >>>only to the sender of this message. >>>If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's >>>'Reply-to-All' >>>button to send your message automatically to [log in to unmask] >>>Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the >>>sender >>>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held >>>by >>>subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about >>>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and >>>past >>>issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site >>>www.radstats.org.uk. >>>******************************************************* >>> >>>****************************************************** >>>Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your >>>message will go only to the sender of this message. >>>If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's >>>'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically >>>to [log in to unmask] >>>Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the >>>sender >>>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held >>>by >>>subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about >>>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and >>>past >>>issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site >>>www.radstats.org.uk. >>>******************************************************* >>> >>>This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email >>>Security System. >> >>This email has been scanned for all viruses by the MessageLabs Email >>Security System. >> >>****************************************************** >>Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your >>message will go only to the sender of this message. >>If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's >>'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically >>to [log in to unmask] >>Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender >>and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held >>by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about >>Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and >>past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site >>www.radstats.org.uk. >>******************************************************* > >****************************************************** >Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your >message will go only to the sender of this message. >If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's >'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically >to [log in to unmask] >Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender >and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held >by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about >Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and >past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site >www.radstats.org.uk. >******************************************************* > >****************************************************** >Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your >message will go only to the sender of this message. >If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's >'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically >to [log in to unmask] >Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender >and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held >by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about >Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and >past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site >www.radstats.org.uk. >******************************************************* ****************************************************** Please note that if you press the 'Reply' button your message will go only to the sender of this message. If you want to reply to the whole list, use your mailer's 'Reply-to-All' button to send your message automatically to [log in to unmask] Disclaimer: The messages sent to this list are the views of the sender and cannot be assumed to be representative of the range of views held by subscribers to the Radical Statistics Group. To find out more about Radical Statistics and its aims and activities and read current and past issues of our newsletter you are invited to visit our web site www.radstats.org.uk. *******************************************************