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I'd like to add a caveat…Many of my students who arrive with aims toward a "commercial dance" career are open and intelligent and have developed some of the most evolved blending of forms and approaches to process. There were two brilliant dissertation pieces this year from street/commercial(?) choreographers. They are part of the "So You Think You Can Dance" generation but it is a lack of experience, guidance and exploration that will keep them there. And it is possible that the commercial world we may speak of with some derision, will also fuel new dance ideas that are… less?… commercial.I do bemoan the trend, and there are some students who seek employability above all else. (Oh no) But I'm eager to blur lines and banish labels … if it were only possible.On 8 May 2013, at 20:24, Charlotte Nichol <[log in to unmask]> wrote:Thank you again…I can't help but think despite the evolution of new dance styles and techniques that this 'commercial' approach to employability within 'modern' industry heralds an era of Yes to Spectacle, Yes to virtuosity and trash imagery, Yes to style, Yes to glamour and transcendency of the star image and yes to the seduction of spectator by the wiles of the performer. If only it meant yes to moving and being moved - but instead I would hazard a guess that this product over process back track is an attempt to allow us all a sense of aneasthesia in our current economic climate! I am sure there is a paper in this somewhere!On 8 May 2013, at 17:19, Jane Bacon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:I found this today and thought I would share…the term 'commercial' seems here to stay – whether we consider it form/style, context or marketing.
BA (Hons) Commercial MusicIf you want a career in the modern music industry then this is the course for you. Our BA (Hons) in Commerical Music has been specifically developed in consultation with music professionals in order to meet the needs of the modern industry. This is a unique opportunity to acquire and develop the range of skills and knowledge required to secure realistic and sustainable employment within the sector. (Uni Chichester UG prospectus 2013, p.60)
From: Lotti <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: Lotti <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, 8 May 2013 12:29
To: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Starting a small discussion….
This e-mail and any attachments are intended for the addressee only and may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise the sender as soon as practicable and delete the e-mail from the system. The University of Chichester is a company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales. Registration number 4740553. The registered office is College Lane, Chichester, West Sussex, PO19 6PE.Dear everyone,
Thank you so much for contributing on and offline. I have found it really helpful to know that others have similar questions or concerns. So just to add to this mix...Mikes concerns re contextualisation are really crucial for me - maybe it's about addressing how the term commercial is being applied in any dance context in teaching - to be aware of differentials and preconceptions? Paul's paragraphs are really interesting. The fine art section appears to herald a financial trade off for freedom of expression. I would certainly argue that art communicates far more than just the works itself, if you consider what a single movement conveys. Also is this saying there is no freedom of expression in commercial work?
'Since the basic motivation of the commercial dance is to entertain you need only sit back and be entertained. However, I dare swear that after you have prepared yourself to watch dance on a deeper level you will judge the commercial field by a longer yardstick than mere amusement '(La Meri 1965, 2011: 141)
I wonder how this deeper level measures as a yardstick....what is the unit?
Veal (2010:390) states: 'Unlike sport, where the publicly subsidized sector and the commercial sector are both considered, unequivocally, to be sport, in the arts those elements of the industry that are financially self-sufficient, such as commercial film and theatre, recorded music and commercial television and publishing, tend to be classified as entertainment or popular culture rather than part of the arts. Thus it would seem that, to exaggerate just a little, only if an activity does not make money is it classified as art.'
La Meri's stance is that there is commercial dance and art dance. Commercial Dance is such that it aligns itself more to popular culture but essentially gets a better wage than the other dance form. There is this strange thing though now that appears we have art as cultural industry and popular culture as commercial industry which is odd??
More and more I see Dance students who appear to have a particular understanding of commercial dance that would include more popular styles emanating from the likes of 'Got to Dance' and other dance talent shows and like Julia suggests 'Music Video' or more Urban styles, as well as popular dance styles that have become fusions or hybrids. I have lately found the word talent increasing in written work - which prompts me to ask for definition! (Harsh maybe?)Also i get concerned when opinion appears to view commercial like Hollywood as having made it at the top of your game in terms of employability.... I guess I am wondering where HE stands in this mix of contexts and trade offs.
Thank you again everyone,Best wishesLotti Nichol
Dance LecturerSent from my iPad
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Kind regards,
Mike Wheaton
Manager for Higher Education
Newcastle College
School of Creative Industries
From: Dance in higher education. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Julia Gleich
Sent: 07 May 2013 16:
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Starting a small discussion….Paul, thank you for the paragraphs on commercial vs. fine art. Considering that information, it is indeed odd that in dance we should have a "style" that is commercial. Also if I am commissioned by the Royal Ballet, am I a commercial choreographer? Finally, how would we define Jeff Koons' or Damien Hirst's work?
On a practical note, I find that students seem to have a narrow view of commercial dance, think music video. There is a philosophical divide that I notice in my choreography classes not only in output, but also in processes. We do our best to consider these issues in class.
Best, Julia
Head of Choreography, London Studio Centre
Sent from my iPhone
On 7 May 2013, at 16:09, Paul Kleiman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:Also (mainly) from the outside looking in...but also intrigued... stumbled across this in relation to Commercial Art vs. Fine Art, and wondered if there was an equivalence?
What is the Difference Between Commercial Art and Fine Art?
Commercial Art
Commercial art is created on-demand for a company or other enterprise and is usually intended for mass exposure and distribution. The creative artist in the commercial environment is a hired hand, subject to the constraints and preferences of the employer and/or client, and often not credited for the work. The purpose behind commercial creativity is communication. Whether visually conveying the virtues of a particular product or service, creating an eye-catching corporate logo to communicating the proper way to perform a task, a commercial artist is essentially organizing information into a visually effective presentation. If the work fulfills the requirements of the assignment, the artist is guaranteed a “sale” in the form of a fee, commission or a regular salary. Many of today’s versatile fine artists also take on commercial assignments to dip into a more dependable income stream, often publishing their commercial efforts under a pseudonym.Fine Art
Fine art is often defined as a creation intended primarily for aesthetic purposes and mainly evaluated according to standards of beauty and meaningfulness. While the driving force behind most commercial efforts is communication, here the motivation is more often an expression of deeper meaning though the eyes of the artist. The artist normally works for himself/herself and is both the initiator and final judge of the work. Decisions about the direction and genre of a piece are his or her’s to make. While commercial value is related to considerations such as effective communication of a product or service, fine artwork in the marketplace is purely selling itself. Many make a living doing so and build a patron base, but in most cases ultimate financial compensation is not guaranteed. However, the dividends of creative freedom and expression are often substantial.
Best wishesPaulDr. Paul Kleiman
HEA UK Discipline Lead for Dance, Drama and Music
On 7 May 2013, at 16:00, "Wheaton, Mike" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:Dear all, though not my profession I agree with Lise. We don’t tend to overly use the word 'commercial' or if we do it is usually contextualised into a form of sustainable practice that individual student's pursue either as a career path or employment opportunity. Certainly at level 6 students develop more specific skills to help them engage with employers usually for the outlets Lise describes or through self-employment. The contextualisation becomes even more important with the reduction and changes in funding and/or employment opportunities.
Kind regards,
Mike Wheaton
Manager for Higher Education
School of Creative Industries
Newcastle College
-----Original Message-----
From: Dance in higher education. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lise Uytterhoeven
Sent: 07 May 2013 15:13
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Starting a small discussion….
Hi Lotti,
To me, it seems that the commercial mainly lies in the context: music videos, dance in fashion shows, dance in TV adverts, backing dancers on TV, promo teams, etc. Here, the values usually associated with dance are mobilised to help sell products.
At London Studio Centre many of our students have an interest in performing in these commercial contexts, and many of our graduates do perform/choreograph this kind of work. We don't, however, teach any dance under the banner of "commercial style". We have Street Dance, Music Theatre Jazz, Lyrical Jazz, Isolation Technique, Tap etc.
I'm guessing that context and style are beginning to be conflated though.
I too would be interested in hearing more about this from other colleagues.
Best wishes,
Lise
Lise Uytterhoeven
Lecturer
London Studio Centre
artsdepot
5 Nether Street
Tally Ho Corner
North Finchley
London N12 0GA
Follow me on Twitter
-----Original Message-----
From: Dance in higher education. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Charlotte Nichol
Sent: 04 May 2013 00:45
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Starting a small discussion….
Hi everyone,
I have been in conversation recently about dance and the notion of the term 'commercial'. I was really interested in anyone's thoughts about what this means at present? What is 'commercial dance', can it be defined - defined by style, context, popularity? What are the political implications of the term 'commercial'? This may seem odd to discuss - but I am keen to find out if this truly has anything to do with the more pressing term of employability?
I really do have a very genuine interest in this in terms of learning and teaching - so if anyone would like to chip in - I would really like it.
Thank you
Best wishes
Lotti
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NCG works nationally to meet diverse education and training needs in
partnership with its subsidiary companies:
The Intraining Group Limited is a private limited company registered in
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office is at Rye Hill House, Scotswood Road, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 7SA.
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Julia K. GleichChoreographer/Artistic Director, Gleich Dances | Head of Choreography, London Studio Centre | Faculty, Laban07966 937770 |in US 801-860-6152Recent work:Photo-essay of The Brodmann Areas by painter EJ HauserA recent mention of my video 14 seconds in comparison with the Whitney Biennial dance offerings:http://leftbankartblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/2012-whitney-biennial.htmlReviews of The Brodmann Areas: