Hi Stephen,
[log in to unmask]" type="cite">At present, the "new system" it is not clear for all to see, it is not
documented well enough and  it is becoming less automatic as yaim is phased
out. We need to plan around those issues, and it is not obvious to me yet
how to achieve that in the  "new world".

I completely agree and I tried to raise the issues in all the forums. I'm not going to post any of the emails I sent in defence of yaim as "lowest common denominator" of all the tools that could be run by any higher level management tool such as puppet, cfengine, quattor. There is no funding anymore. Markus Schulz reiterated the community effort cncept in the post-EMI WLCG software lifecycle document http://tinyurl.com/cat4aou which might have had other revisions but hasn't changed in the core. I quote

Sites that support specific configuration tools should be encouraged to share their work. To limit the effort for single sharing of the work between sites is essential. This can be promoted by leaving room in the GDB and pre-GDB for site admins to present their work.

[log in to unmask]" type="cite">That could work, but I have to give you the straight guff on this.
I know, and not many of us have puppet experience. So the sharing at this point is just to see how other sites are doing it and this is why we have on a per site basis. Perhaps when we are more robust we can share code that works at all sites. Also I would try as much as possible where there are puppet modules maintained by the development team to use those. DPM has puppet modules they are not publicly distributed yet (I think) but here are Ricardo pointers if anyone wants to start to give a look

Can you go ahead and try them out?

Please configure this additional repository (until they get released):
http://etics-repository.cern.ch/repository/pm/volatile/repomd/id/43c6f9ee-3d0d-412f-8f1f-b4244a35b5ce/sl6_x86_64_gcc446EPEL/etics-volatile-build-by-id-protect.repo

and follow the instructions here:
https://svnweb.cern.ch/trac/lcgdm/wiki/Dpm/Admin/Puppet

You should find examples for both head and disk nodes:
https://svnweb.cern.ch/trac/lcgdm/browser/puppet-lcgdm/trunk/doc/examples

Let us know what you think. Once you feel comfortable we can give them to a wider audience to start migrating away from yaim.

They are on my TODO list and Wahid has already given a look at them (he might want to comment).

cheers
alessandra


[log in to unmask]" type="cite">
1) Puppet classes could only be directly shared in rare circumstances.
It is much more likely that any given puppet class would need to  be
modified to fit in another context. While it is more likely that
whole suites/hierarchies of puppet classes may be portable
as a "job lot", it is also true that the  context of the source and target
puppet  installations involved  would have to be quite similar. If two
sites independently develop their puppet class hierarchies, they are
quite likely to be incompatible. The problem is quite similar to trying to
bolt two database schemas together, or two C++ class hierarchies (it's
engineering - you can't fit a Ford head on a Toyota block).

2) The version of puppet we use here is concerned with installing
"resources" such as files, packages, mounts, services etc.
It is not good for context dependent modifications to
the resources - that is what YAIM is for. I discussed this with
Chris Brew at GridPP30. It is hard for me to envisage how Yaim
logic and the site-info.def/vo.d "configuration  database" can be
reworked in puppet. Maybe newer version have much more
whipupability? Or perhaps the YAIM logic will go into rpm post
scripts. None of this is clear yet, so I am wary of the "new world".

So maybe I'm wrong on this, but it is not obvious to me how compatible
puppet class hierarchies will spring up from community support without a head.

Durham has already started to post some, Birmingham was also on the way but I was a bit slow to respond (*). Feel free to share Liverpool modules.

Good. I'll try to support this too. Unfortunately, it is only possible to
properly interpret the Liverpool modules as a job lot, due to
dependencies in the hierarchy tree. They are also very site specific. I'll try,
time permitting.

Anyway, those are the things to watch out for.

Cheers,

Steve



On 02/04/2013 09:40, Stephen Jones wrote:
On 04/02/2013 09:23 AM, Jeremy Coles wrote:
Dear All,

I hope everyone had a good Easter.

We will have an ops meeting today to catch any issues from the last two weeks, review current priorities (removing EMI-1 components for example) and revisit any topics from GridPP30 that anyone wants to follow up or discuss further. The outline agenda is at http://indico.cern.ch/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=240010.

A direct link to the EVO meeting is: http://evo.caltech.edu/evoNext/koala.jnlp?meeting=eseieIvnv9aiaeIla8Is

For minutes: Mark=5 Duncan=5 Catalin=5 Andrew=5 Stuart=5 Ewan=5 Matt=6 David=6 Stephen=6 Brian=6.

regards,
Jeremy
Hi,

I know it's late but I'd like to add this to the agenda.

Issue: No YAIM in EMI3 APEL
Reason: Admins should be aware of this departure from the normal protocol.
IMHO We need to assess the wisdom and viability of phasing out yaim before
any successor is nominated (i.e. in general,  it's best to plan where the road
leads before we lay the road down!)

Cheers,

Steve



-- 
Facts aren't facts if they come from the wrong people. (Paul Krugman)




-- 
Facts aren't facts if they come from the wrong people. (Paul Krugman)