Print

Print


Hello,

Here we deal with symmetry and the unique part of reciprocal space (the reciprocal space "asymmetric unit" so to speak).

C222(1) has eight asymmetric units (international tables, space group 20);

P2(1) only has two. Assuming that Friedel's law does apply, then the minimum rotation range to collect a non-redundant data set (one observation per reflection) is 90 degrees, provided that the crystal is "correctly" and perfectly aligned. Normally with our current data collection methods where the crystal is randomly oriented, we would collect more than 90 degrees (180 degrees, or 360 degrees with the Pilatus detectors on an intense SR beamline where you cannot really check during data collection how well the crystal fares during exposure to the X-rays - "shoot first, think later".

The "reciprocal space" asymmetric unit in C222(1) is smaller.

I assume that what you are doing is to take the reduced data set file (an MTZ file probably) and reduce the symmetry from C222(1) to P2(1). You will not cover the monoclinic reciprocal space asymmetric unit by doing so.

The way to do it is to take the file from processing, before (crystallographic symmetry) merging of the equivalents, and perform the scaling and merging in the P2(1) space group. Or reprocess the data frames in P2(1) if you have lost the unmerged data file.

Now of course this will still give you a poor completeness if you have used a strategy to optimize data collection in the orthorhombic space group (you won't have collected enough data then for good completeness in the monoclinic space group).

I hope this is clear !

HTH,

Fred.

On 24/03/13 11:20, Appu kumar wrote:
[log in to unmask]" type="cite">
I run the phenix.xtriage to evaluate the twining but it suggest no twining. When i reindex from C2221 to P21, the completeness of data reduced from 95 % to 35% whereas the map is very good and Rwork and Rfree are 26/31 for 2.2 resolution. I do not understand why the completeness of data reduced so much on reindexing. please Can anyone explain this phenomenon.
Thank you

On 24 March 2013 13:30, Matthias Zebisch <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
the p21 c2221 ambivalence can mean severe twinning (i had a similar case just now - try several crystals from the same condition) !
What do the twinning statistics suggest?

cheers, Matthias

-----------------------------------------
Dr. Matthias Zebisch
Division of Structural Biology,
Wellcome Trust Centre for Human Genetics,
University of Oxford,
Roosevelt Drive,
Oxford OX3 7BN, UK

Phone (+44) 1865 287549; 
Fax (+44) 1865 287547
Email [log in to unmask]
Website http://www.strubi.ox.ac.uk
-----------------------------------------
On 3/24/2013 7:46 AM, Appu kumar wrote:
Thank you for the quick reply. After molecular replacement , i have done only few cycle of refinement in refmac. I have not done any solvent modification or NCS averaging. I have initially indexed the data in C2221 but Rfree was not decreasing so i reindexed the data in  data in P121 space group keeping the Rfree flag of C2221. While analysing the symmetry mates , i found large space but no density. structure of Ligand binding domain is almost identical with 90% identity in sequence. I am stuck with this problem and don't know how to process further.
Please give me your valuable suggestion. I will appreciate your effort.
Thank you
Appu

On 24 March 2013 02:38, Raji Edayathumangalam <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Dear Appu,

I am not sure that I have a complete sense of the issue at hand since some of the information needed to think your issue through is missing in your email. For example, to what high resolution cut-off were the data measured? What resolution limits were used for the MR search? How do the unit cell dimensions and space group in the two cases compare?

I am guessing the ligand binding domain in your protein has the identical sequence to that of the published ligand binding domain that you use as a template in your MR search. In any case, here are a couple of my thoughts:

(1) It might be worth setting up different runs of MR with different numbers for expected copies (not just two copies but also one copy and three copies just in case you have one of the extreme cases of solvent content)?

(2) If the MR solution is correct and there is physical room for a DNA binding domain in your lattice (check by displaying symmetry mates), perhaps the DNA binding domain is disordered. In that case (and if all attempts with current data fail), you may have to crystallize the protein in presence of DNA.


Good luck!
Raji




On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Appu kumar <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Dear members,

                          I am doing a molecular replacement of a transcription factor whose ligand binding structure(24000 Da) is available in PDB but not for the DNA binding(13000 Da). When i am searching for the two copies from ligand binding domain as a template model, i am getting very good solution but i am not getting any density for the DNA binding domain to build up in density. The space gorup is P 1 21 1 (4) and unit cell parameters are Unit Cell:   57.43   69.36  105.99   90.00   90.00   90.00. Please guide me how to get the complete model structure. Table below show the matthews statistics

                         For estimated molecular weight   37000.
Nmol/asym  Matthews Coeff  %solvent       P(2.20)     P(tot)
_____________________________________________________________
  1         5.71            78.46         0.00         0.01
  2         2.85            56.91         0.62         0.70
  3         1.90            35.37         0.37         0.29
  4         1.43            13.82         0.00         0.00
_____________________________________________________________


The phaser molecular replacement gives the following table.
istogram of relative frequencies of VM values
   ----------------------------------------------
   Frequency of most common VM value normalized to 1
   VM values plotted in increments of 1/VM (0.02)

        <--- relative frequency --->
        0.0  0.1  0.2  0.3  0.4  0.5  0.6  0.7  0.8  0.9  1.0 
        |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |    |   
   10.00 -
    8.33 -
    7.14 -
    6.25 -
    5.56 -
    5.00 -
    4.55 -
    4.17 -
    3.85 --
    3.57 ---
    3.33 ------
    3.12 ----------
    2.94 **************** (COMPOSITION*1)
    2.78 -----------------------
    2.63 --------------------------------
    2.50 -----------------------------------------
    2.38 ------------------------------------------------
    2.27 --------------------------------------------------
    2.17 -----------------------------------------------
    2.08 --------------------------------------
    2.00 --------------------------
    1.92 ---------------
    1.85 -------
    1.79 ---
    1.72 -
    1.67 -
    1.61 -
    1.56 -
    1.52 -
    1.47 * (COMPOSITION*2)
    1.43 -
    1.39 -
    1.35 -
    1.32 -
    1.28 -
    1.25 -

$TABLE : Cell Content Analysis:
$SCATTER
:N*Composition vs Probability:0|3x0|1:1,2:
$$
N*Composition Probability
$$ loggraph $$
1 0.306066
2 0.00141804
$$

   Most probable VM for resolution = 2.27817
   Most probable MW of protein in asu for resolution = 92664.2

Thank a lot in advance





--
Raji Edayathumangalam
Instructor in Neurology, Harvard Medical School
Research Associate, Brigham and Women's Hospital
Visiting Research Scholar, Brandeis University






-- 
Fred. Vellieux (B.Sc., Ph.D., hdr)
ouvrier de la recherche
IBS / ELMA
41 rue Jules Horowitz
F-38027 Grenoble Cedex 01
Tel: +33 438789605
Fax: +33 438785494