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Beverley, Interestingly in Klinenberg'stwo neighborhoods, the "problem" place was North Lawndale, in which much of the housing had either been torn down or was unoccupied (so there was a minimum of informal neighborly surveillance). On the other hand, many of the dwellings in the Little Village involved overcrowding, yet many of the residents did not see this as a problem. And the great number of residents provided the "eyes on the street" that North Lawndale lacked. In short, I don't think there is a clear-cut claim that can be made. Each place is a unique synergy of interrelationships and what is helpful in one may be undermining in another. Hope you'll look at the place literature. It's more useful in viewing environmental situations synergistically. DS Dr. David Seamon Professor of Environment-Behavior & Place Research Department of Architecture 211 Seaton Hall Kansas State University Manhattan, KS 66506-2901 785-532-5953 [log in to unmask] www.arch.ksu.edu/seamon/ Description: http://www.newapd.com/logo.jpg