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Mark I agree. My original post was about Winterbourne view and invited a critical view of it, the concordat, and ld psychs role/contribution to the plan. I am looking for a narrative that embraces its complexity across care groups and which details what progress will look like for the people at the heart of all this. Richard Sent from my iPhone On 19 Dec 2012, at 17:56, Mark Burton <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I'm not sure where this is going. One feature of discussion on this list (one reason I don't post so often) is that the discussion gets funnelled down into a path determined by the most recent posts. I thought this was about a critical analysis of the situation whereby abusive service provision continues despite (or because?) of all the recent policy development. Wolfensberger put his finger on a few key phenomena but lacked any kind of structural and systemic analysis, lapsing into a moralistic account. If we can understand how the 'deep structures' of devaluation and oppression combine with present conjunctural factors, then we have a basis for principled action. > And as Ignacio Martín-Baró was at such pains to point out (albeit in a different context), "... > psychology must switch focus from itself, stop being preoccupied with its scientific and social status and self-define as an effective service for the needs of the numerous majority , [read the oppressed, MB] …. which should constitute the primary object of its work > > It would be so nice to see less discussion of the psychology profession and more of a community psychological approach to liberatory praxis. > > > > > On 19/12/12 14:50, Richard Pemberton wrote: >> I didn't have any particular we in mind. >> >> It's a better word than I ? >> >> Richard >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 19 Dec 2012, at 11:18, Craig Newnes <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >>> Who is the 'we' here? Psychs are organized in local non-professional communities, political action etc but as citizens not psychs. Seems about right to me. C >>> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone >>> From: richard pemberton <[log in to unmask]> >>> Sender: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List <[log in to unmask]> >>> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 11:14:12 +0000 >>> To: <[log in to unmask]> >>> ReplyTo: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List <[log in to unmask]> >>> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Winterbourne View >>> >>> I am not a positive psychologist! and know more about despair than I would ever wish on my worst enemy. I think we need to get mad and organised in an intelligent way. The lack of progressive psy voices at all levels alongside people at the sharp end is in my book criminal? >>> >>> Richard >>> >>> >>> On 19 Dec 2012, at 10:49, Penny Priest wrote: >>> >>>> Despair can also show that something is wrong. Beware avoidance of despair: >>>> >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: Richard Pemberton >>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:06 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Winterbourne View >>>> >>>> I am not against despair but it does have its limitations and can be a license to sit on ones hands. It was his anti abortion position that was very damaging. The work just ground to halt. >>>> People don't need psy assistants they need friends jobs lovers email lists! in fact valued social roles. It's really tough being a senior psy in services just now. We are really being tested? >>>> Richard >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 19 Dec 2012, at 09:24, Penny Priest <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm not sure psychologists do have much influence on the skills and humanity of the whole system - I think most of our attempts to do this are often drowned out by other demands from higher up the system (e.g. inputting data and providing NICE compliant therapies). Where I work in adult mental health, they got rid of day service accommodation and created social inclusion and recovery services, then last year got rid of these, so many of the people I see are more lonely and isolated than ever, yet the rhetoric is that they are no longer institutionalised and they are integrated into their communities. I often think providing more assistants, befrienders and support staff would meet people's needs better than an hour with a psychologist once a fortnight for a limited time. As for Wolfenberger's despair, perhaps it is helpful for Deborah to hear about that, as it highlights she is not the only one who is not happy about the way our services respond to people. This is not madness. I admire the person who can still see like the ethnographer, long after they have become absorbed within a culture. We are all flawed and we are all generally inclined to protect our own interests, to a greater or lesser extent, which is at least one reason why many psychologists would object to the commissioning in Glasgow. >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: Craig Newnes >>>>> To: [log in to unmask] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:25 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Winterbourne View >>>>> >>>>> I don't think I'm trumpeting individualized solutions - the changes Mark + colleagues brought about were at the commissioning level in terms of which services were purchased. You could argue that his work didn't change the purchaser-provider split or the wider context but as I have singularly failed to do either, I won't argue for impossible goals C >>>>> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone >>>>> From: richard pemberton <[log in to unmask]> >>>>> Sender: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List <[log in to unmask]> >>>>> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2012 08:05:46 +0000 >>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>>> ReplyTo: The UK Community Psychology Discussion List <[log in to unmask]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [COMMUNITYPSYCHUK] Winterbourne View >>>>> >>>>> Craig >>>>> >>>>> Looks like Mark was ahead of his time then! Surprised you are trumpeting such individualised solutions. Take out the senior psychologists who are working to enhance the skills and humanity of the whole system of care and to prevent money being poured down the drain on extraordinarily poor service designs at many vulnerable peoples peril. >>>>> >>>>> I am rusty on my SRV but death making was a the top of the common wounds tree. It did not cast all services as inherently death making. ___________________________________ There is a twitter feed: http://twitter.com/CommPsychUK (to post contact Grant [log in to unmask] To unsubscribe or to change your details on this COMMUNITYPSYCHUK list, visit the website: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/webadmin?A0=COMMUNITYPSYCHUK