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Rather than muddy Andy I think that helps illustrate the need to look at the population and health risk factors e.g. higher risk in general v work populations? Higher risk in areas where the population take part in physically strenuous activities e.g. gyms etc. In Harrods we had defibs 10 plus years ago as we were aware that the shopping populations had a higher incidence of tourists,likely to be from other timezones affecting timing of medication, and potentially more active than they would be at home (trekking around London sights rather than pottering around at home).

Regards,  Carr

On Nov 23, 2012 11:52 AM, "Andy Heslop" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
To muddy the waters even further, those of us who work in the retail sector are quite often approached by various organisations asking if they can site AEDs on our premises for use on customers/members of the public. I've not heard of an employee death whilst at work during the fourteen years I've been employed by my current employer, but am aware of at least five customer deaths whilst they've been shopping with us.  
 
Regards,

Andy



From:        "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
To:        [log in to unmask]
Date:        23/11/2012 11:19
Subject:        Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Defibs in the workplace
Sent by:        [log in to unmask]



Only just caught up with this thread and I totally concur with Car’s response.

Bottom line is – use a risk assessment approach – high degree of risk worth having AEDs on site. Low degree of risk where the likelyhood of an AED being required is very low and access to emergency care is good – perhaps the cost of the kit and consumables coupled with the associated training needs and time out of work to undertake the training means the costs may well outweigh the benefits.

Anne


On 23/11/2012 09:39, "Carr Barnes" <[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hi all

If you google 'considering a workplace defibrillator' you'll get a fair few hits about risk assessment such as;

Some factors to consider when assessing the need for a workplace AED:

• The degree of isolation of the workplace from emergency services

• The time taken for emergency services to potentially access some work areas

• The type of work undertaken in the workplace

• The risk profile of workplace attendees

• The number of workplace attendees

• The availability of other medical support

• The risk of injury or death
The Advisory External Defibrillator National Pre-Hospital Standards 2008 by PHECC Ireland also give a really good breakdown of all the costs to consider, both initial and ongoing.


Regards,  Carr

On Nov 23, 2012 9:18 AM, "Milne Campbell" <[log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]> wrote:
One argument I have heard can help is distance from further help,
i.e. how long for an ambulance / to hospital…
 

 
<http://www.workingwell2gether.nhs.uk/home/flu/>

From: [log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Janet Patterson
Sent: 22 November 2012 09:11
To: [log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Defibs in the workplace
 
Thanks to all for all your info on who has/ doesn’t have AED.  BHF – Grants available (Dawn you asked for info).  Im not sure it extends to workplaces rather public places but might be worth a look. J
Getting defibrillators into the right places
Defibrillators, also known as automated external defibrillators (AEDs), need to be placed strategically – in areas where there is a high incidence of cardiac arrest <http://www.bhf.org.uk/heart-health/conditions/cardiac-arrest.aspx>  and where it's difficult for an ambulance to get quickly.
More than 6,000 defibrillators have already been placed in the community since we started donating them in 1996. 
Rural areas, communities with poor road networks or traffic congestion, and where large crowds gather are all places where we need defibrillators the most.
In your area
If you are interested in helping provide defibrillators in your area, please get in touch <mailto:[log in to unmask]> . We can support the cost of a defibrillator with a grant. Grant applicants must provide for ongoing maintenance and community based groups should be trained regularly
 

From: [log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dawn Veal
Sent: 22 November 2012 08:58
To: [log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Defibs in the workplace
 
Hi,
 
I have 550 employees and would like to have them but have been advised the cost versus benefit to the company is not sufficient. If you can find any funding let me know as I would be interested.
 
Thanks Dawn
 

From: [log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <mailto:%5bmailto:[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Janet Patterson
Sent: 21 November 2012 14:06
To: [log in to unmask]" target="_blank">[log in to unmask]
Subject: [OCC-HEALTH] Defibs in the workplace
 
HI all,
 
I hope this is ok within the educational remit -  it’s all part of a learning curve in practice!
 
I am doing a comparative fact finding mission to see what is current with provision of AEDs in the work place.
I wonder if you would mind letting me know whether the business you work for/ at have AEDs.
If you are able to share with the name of the establishment & how many employees at the location of the defib I would be most grateful?
 
The reason being is that my establishment is in a quandary about this.
There is sufficient evidence to support it saves lives (this is not my issue) however from a business perspective when 11 machines, training of personnel and the associated costs have to be considered in a time when the business is slashing costs to save money they are considering all aspects.
 
In the past I am aware of government funding for such placing and training in the workplace.
Does anyone know of any current funding or where I could find such information?
 
Thanks in anticipation.
 
Janet Patterson RGN, RSCPHN – OH, BSc (Hons) MMEDSCI. CMIOSH
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