Thanks Anne,

I am not saying this to ‘rock the boat’ but having had a variety of OH settings and employers over the last 16 years I know how it can vary.

Some OHA’s may not have this as a reference point.

Many OH companies are now using telephone consultations and I personally avoid them like the plague. As Anne rightly says you can read a person better face to face and communication breaks down on the phone far easier, especially when you are suggesting to those who don’t want to engage and come back before the MED3.

The issue is that as we all know a lot of companies go for the cheapest OH option and only things they perceive they must have i.e. HS and sickness absence and avoid the wellbeing aspect.

OH companies are then cornered into offering what the company wants which may not be what they need. But we must always remember the NMC code of conduct and that if the ‘sh*t’ hit the fan our bosses in many cases would say that it was our choice to follow their procedures. As isolated practitioners ,in many cases ,we must always constantly ask ourselves if we are meeting our legal and moral obligations and just because we are asked to do something we should question whether it meets our NMC requirements. Self preservation…

Sorry I have become more cynical as I have got older….

D

Hello Dawn

Yes, there are difficulties when the client and the OHN are not sitting face to face. Furthermore, if I were seeing a client face to face and then read to them the points I intend including in a report to management it is more obvious from body language and facial expression whether or not they understand what I will be including. I have had several experiences when there has been miscommunication as a result of the client speaking English as a 2nd or subsequent language. Feedback from the client as to the accuracy of the content of my intended report has been very important.

 One option, therefore, would be to email the client a pdf of the intended report content bullet points. They could then be given a finite period (you decide what that is) to respond if they consider there are any inaccuracies. During that period the OHN can be writing their report. Any inaccuracies can then be resolved subject to feedback from the client.

Anne





On 30/11/2012 08:54, "Dawn Veal" <[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]> wrote:

All,
 
I want to add this to the pot….how many of you actually give all  ( except in exceptional circumstances where you may agree it verbally by reading it out and then emailing and sending a copy in post) your reports to the employee to read and go through it face to face with them then have it actually signed before you send to HR/Manager?
 
I ask as I feel that this is not the case.
 
My experience is in many cases due to time and location that it is agreed verbally and written in notes and then written and sent without a full reading to employee. As many of us know would we write everything we think if that was the case still? Could the employee say they are not fully informed of the report and the potential consequences?
 
As we bang on about informed consent I wonder what you all do to overcome this.
 
I am aware that many OHNA’s work remotely and off site and to avoid delays in reports the overview is discussed but not the exact content.
 
Am I right?
 
Anne Harris what are your views.
 
As OHA’s struggle to sometimes be given adequate time for their assessments etc can we all hand on heart feel confident  we fulfill informed  consent for reports.
 
Its strange that it is expected that our reports are written and sent pronto to HR etc yet HR will wait 6 weeks for a GP.
 
In comparison to the GP issue I think this is a area we could all hang ourselves on far more regularly.
 
I like the idea for GP’s of getting HR to send a copy…But are they breaking confidentiality as the report was consented to them?
 
Hhhummm.
 
D
 
 
 

From: [log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of kate owen
Sent: 29 November 2012 17:46
To: [log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] writing to a GP


Anne,



I don't think you have been controversial. When I replied to this threas I was really thinking the same (though said it much less convincingly) and that is why I ensure the client is aware of what I am doing and is in agreement (though maybe I will get written consent in future). Most lay people would not assume that we would write to a GP just because their fit note has the GP address on it which they have sent to HR or their line manager.



Kate



From: "[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
Sent: Thursday, 29 November 2012, 1:13
Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] writing to a GP


I am possibly going to be  controversial here.

I have read the responses by others who have already responded.  However, I would NOT advocating writing to the GP without first gaining the employee's consent to do so, even though you may not be breaching any confidences. It is still “good manners” to gain agreement with the client. I would ask myself the question - "How would I feel if an OHN from an organisation I worked for contacted my GP without my consent?" Frankly, I would be very dissatisfied, no matter how good the OHAs intentions may have been. Although  OH practitioners know we act as impartial advisers that is not necessarily well understood by our clients.

 Liaison with the client's GP is unlikely to be  “a case of life and death” and therefore there should be ample time to gain the agreement of the employee prior to contacting any medical practitioner responsible for their care. If the reason for contacting the GP, and the subsequent benefit to the employee were explained a reasonable employee would have no problem with such a course of action. I have never had such a request turned down by a client, but there is always a first time. If you did not seek their agreement before such contact then you could lose their trust which benefits none of the parties involved.

Anne
Anne Harriss
Course Director
London South Bank University


On 28/11/2012 13:33, "Lindsey Hall" <[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Hi Elizabeth
>
> I am going to make some assumptions that the person in question has been
> referred to you - and consented to this - and that you have provided a report
> back to the employer that provides advice on the return to work programme,
> which the employee is not engaging with.  If this is the case, I don't think
> there is a problem in sending the GP a copy of your report without employee
> consent a) if you are not asking for any information in return and b) if you
> let the employee know what you are doing.  
>
> It could be argued that non engagement with a return to work programme is a
> managerial issue and therefore a letter to the GP would be better coming from
> management/HR. However, the GP may respond better to an independent health
> professional so it's probably better coming from you.
>
> If the employee has not been properly referred to you and you have given your
> advice more informally than formally then you may be getting drawn into
> HR/Managments bidding and ought to see the employee first.
>
> Thanks
>
> Lindsey
>  
>
>
> Lindsey Hall
> Director and Independent Occupational Health Adviser
> Split Dimension Ltd
> Phone: 01454 852715
> Fax: 01454 740045
> Mobile: 07771 596111
> Web: www.splitdimension.co.uk <http://www.splitdimension.co.uk>  
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/splitdimension
> The Health at Work Guide to Life - out now!
>
> This electronic transmission is strictly confidential and intended solely for
> the addressee. If you are not the named  addressee or think you may not be the  
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>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
> Of Elizabeth Baldock
> Sent: 28 November 2012 11:06
> To: [log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
> Subject: [OCC-HEALTH] writing to a GP
>
> Can anyone on Jisc point me in the direction of information pertaining to
> writing to a GP with information only without employee consent.
> e.g. a long term employee has been assessed as fit to return to work with a
> structured and phased return to work plan.
>
>  The employee has not engaged with this and has told the company he will see
> his GP as he is under their care and let the company know.
>
> i have been asked to write to the GP detailing the planned phased return to
> work, hours duties etc. i am not asking for any information back.
>
> Question is do I need emplyee consent to do this. The RCN were unclear and
> they have referred it to their OH specialist advisors but I wonder what list
> members think as I value the level of expertise of the members
>
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