Ben,
Taking your last point, we have to provide ‘information’ but as there are no agreed standards for handing ‘data’ back, we could quite easily give it to you as reams of dead trees but offer you the option of paying a bit to cover our costs to supply you with digital data.
All the best,
Paul - similarly playing devil’ advocate ;-)
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Ben Wallace
Sent: 14 November 2012 10:53
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: HER Charges: North Somerset
Jenny,
Lots of great things for us to discuss at our next HER Forum meeting. Thanks for those comments.
My own view is the following:
£100 seems a bit steep but recently using a cost recovery formula for an HER search here at Warwickshire it came to £75 so not far off (we currently charge £50). I guess the question would be can this cost be justified and proven?
Our costs include a whole host of things not just staff salaries. You also have to remember that a member of staff's hourly rate does not equal their salary divided by 52 weeks divided by 40 hours. I use an approved formula based on 45 productive weeks a year and 30 productive hours a week, ah the wonders of local government!
Second point, no HERs are perfect that's because we are generally understaffed and under resourced and because like archaeology itself it is an infinite puzzle with half the pieces missing and no guiding picture!
Why do we choose to charge some and not others? Well for ourselves part of our service is funded by the County Council (lucky us!), it is our discretion that this is to provide a free service to members of the public and researchers who have no commercial gain. We could charge them (and may in the future) but at the moment we choose not to.
Can commercial contractors charge the HER to accept information when it is part of a planning requirement that said information is deposited with the HER. This would be like charging a museum to deposit an archive with them. An interesting idea, I would like to see how that could be justified? (obviously I appreciate you are playing devil's advocate here)
Ben
Ben Wallace
(Historic Environment Record Manager)
BA (EU) Hons, MA, MIfA
Warwickshire Historic Environment Record
Archaeological Information and Advice (AIA)
Archives and Historic Environment,
Heritage and Culture Warwickshire,
Localities and Community Safety,
Communities
Warwickshire County Council
Phone: 01926 412734
Mailing Address: Archaeological Information and Advice, Communities, Warwickshire County Council, PO Box 43, Shire Hall, Warwick CV34 4SX
Physical Address: Archaeological Information and Advice, Communities, Warwickshire County Council, Barrack Street, Warwick CV34 4TH
e-mail: [log in to unmask]
On 14 November 2012 10:26, Jenny Hall <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
.......£100 per hour...does that mean the person doing enquiries gets £4000 a week - £208000 a year? Or does it take four people on £52000 a year to do each enquiry?..........
I completely support that costs need to be covered for a persons time to do the enquiry, plus any extra such as time to raise an invoice etc, but surely £100 an hour is way beyond cost-recovery and on the way to making of a rather large profit for the service provided.
Given that the HER for an area is a monopoly so we have no choice in which provider we use, and that the HER has to be consulted for certain types of work, this very high cost sometimes feels unfair. Having paid large sums for an enquiry, when we get back data which is wrongly located, misinterpreted, or with duplicate records for the same site, or with no description, as often happens, we start to get a bit grumpy. Adding in that the enquiry will be done within 10 working days (or 20 days in one area we work in) when our client requires us to have completed within a week and things really start to rankle.
Thinking about why archaeological contractors are charged when others aren't, is it because they are making money? If so then the processing of the enquiry has to be timely and purposeful in order for the contractor to be able to make that money. Data that arrives after the work is supposed to be finished, or that takes longer to tidy up than looking for new sites is not the service that contractors should expect for the amount charged.
We always want to give added value back to the HER and will often return a database as well as the report to help things along. We wonder what would happen if we charged £100 for the database and report to be returned to the HER. We may be required to return new information to the HERs but I don't believe that anything says it has to be for free.
I remember all the pressures within an HER/SMR and know it isn't easy but such high costs seem to be unreasonable and if the HERs weren't monopolies the charges would not stand up to market pressures.
Jenny
Ex SMR Officer - now a "contractor"
----- Original Message -----
From: [log in to unmask]"> Vince Russett
Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2012 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: HER Charges: North Somerset
Hi Stuart!
Vince here: we curently charge £100 per hour for searches, with a guaranteed level of search. We may be increasing this in the new financial year.
Vince (and Daniel Smith, HER Officer)
Vince Russett
County Archaeologist
Development Management Group
North Somerset Council
Our Historic Environment Record is now on-line: Go to the North Somerset web site (http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk) then use the tabs Environment / Conservation / Archaeology/ Historic Environment Record. Enjoy!
Landline: 01934 426456
Mobile: 07919 265645
Please note my work hours are usually 8am to 4pm
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of CAKEBREAD, Stuart
Sent: 13 November 2012 16:52
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: HER Charges: Suffolk
Hi Colin,
Sorry about that, and thanks for getting back to me so quickly.
Regards,
Stuart
Stuart Cakebread | Greater London Historic Environment Record Manager
Direct Line: 0207 973 3731
English Heritage | London Planning
1 Waterhouse Square | 138-142 Holborn
London | EC1N 2ST
Please see our website:
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/glaas
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Colin Pendleton
Sent: 13 November 2012 16:49
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: FW: HER Charges: SuffolkStuart,
same as in 2010 for Suffolk but as it was blank on your form have re-completed. Likely to see some change in near future eg, licensing and charging some local authorites (currently under discussion).
Colin Pendleton
From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of CAKEBREAD, Stuart
Sent: 13 November 2012 15:43
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: HER ChargesAfternoon All,
As we in the Greater London HER are thinking of reviewing our search charges, and there is a discussion on HER charging policies at the next HERForum meeting, I was thinking that it was an ideal time to update the HER charging data in the JISCmail file area. I've attached a spreadsheet which combines the data from the 2010 and 2007 surveys, I can't seem to open the 2009 survey, and added a couple of new data fields which I've highlighted in italics. Could you please have a look at the spreadsheet and either email me ([log in to unmask]) your updated information or let me know if there has been no change. I'll then update a master spreadsheet and try and get it ready in time for the December meeting.
Thanks for your help,
Stuart
Stuart Cakebread | Greater London Historic Environment Record Manager
Direct Line: 0207 973 3731
English Heritage | London Planning
1 Waterhouse Square | 138-142 Holborn
London | EC1N 2ST
Please see our website:
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/glaas
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