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On Sun, 2012-11-18 at 14:00 +0000, Richard Ballantine wrote: > Horsefeathers. Quite right, Mr Ballantine, I agree :-). Years and years ago you inspired me to want a recumbent with a chapter in your book entitled something like Zzzzwwaaaaaaammmooooooooooo! I think I bought your book in 1992 and had a first go on a long-wheelbased recumbent at Southampton Cycling Extravaganza (those were the days...) I finally bought my first recumbent, from Bikefix in London, in 2006 and wondered why on earth I hadn't done so earlier. They say you'll never go back to riding an upwrong full time after buying a recumbent...well I'm on my second recumbent now. The Challenge Hurricane SL was rather slow (small wheels, big potholes, rough roads) and disgraceful on hills, but my Rapto glides along as if I am riding on silk... it's great! On a more serious note... I agree and disagree with John's points. I'm no scientist, so I can only answer from experience (and perhaps a little unfitness, though I thought I was rather fit until I went riding with Stuart and Dave from Bikefix, who left me trailing as they shot up hills like rats up drainpipes). > > a) inefficient use of human physiology; Do you mean you can't 'honk' up hills? Well, that's true, and I'm always last away from the lights... but... > > b) poor hill climbing; ... I think, WRT hills only, this has more to do with gearing than the inability to 'honk'. Instead of 'honking' you can push against the seat. But better gearing (on my bike) would enable me to go up hills very well indeed. My small-wheeled bike had very little inertia, so if I stopped pedalling I pretty-much just stopped moving, which meant effort all the way up. My Raptobike has big wheels and plenty of inertia so it rolls halfway up the next hill before I have to start pedalling. It's true that recumbents *are* slower on hills than upwrongs, but on the flat and downhills, recumbents are faster. Which is why I bombed past all the racing bikes on the Dunwich Dynamo, very often exceeding 35mph on the flat and much faster on some delicious long gentle downhills, until the sharp little hills started and then the Bromptonauts (racing Brompton riders) I flew past half an hour before simply raced past me... But don't believe me on this--I'm lazy and unfit. You do need a certain amount of fitness to do hilly rides, and as I say, my bike could be improved a lot with better gearing. My good friend Trevor--who is pretty fit but certainly not a racing-snake, has fairly recently completed an 800km round-trip to the south of France and back on his Rat. He rode there through the rolling countryside and ultimately up and over the Massif Central--taking the route across a line of valleys. Dave McCraw, an ultra-distance cyclist in Scotland, which is not renowned for its flatness, has done single rides of hundreds of kilometres and often climbed thousands of feet. And the afore-mentioned Dave and Stuart make damn sure they include some pretty challenging little hills in the lumpy bit of Essex. They both take on hills that would leave plenty of racing upwrongers panting and begging for mercy. The thing about Trevor, though, is that after he bought his Rat, his cycling just transformed. I guess he just likes riding the thing so much that he wants to do so all day long, day in day out. He's done several rides from London to Somerset and his ride to the south of France, in the space of about two years. He'd never have done that much riding before! Another key thing about recumbents is that they are... comfortable! One of the reasons I wanted one for long is that my bony nether-regions really didn't like upwrong saddles. Awgh, after 100 miles it's painful! On a recumbent, riding the Dynamo (120 miles including a few unintended diversions) was lovely--apart from the knees towards the end, due to the aforementioned gearing. Other cyclists were saying "I wish I had one of those!!". I arrived in luxurious comfort, parked my bike and took the padded seat with me to go and lie on the beach. Advantage no.101 of recumbents: you can use the Ventisit seat-pad to make pebbly beaches more comfortable! > > c) poor and inflexible load carrying; Nawgh, that's just not true. You can't carry much on a racing upwrong, and you can't carry much on a flat-out performance recumbent. But then you wouldn't want to. My Raptobike is an entry-level performance recumbent (with some very good reviews, e.g. Dave McCraw), souped up with bigger wheels than stock. It does a nice speed, and it carries two standard Ortlieb panniers on the luggage rack, and can of course take one of Nick Lobnitz' lovely Carry-Freedom trailers. I moved house using my recumbent. Doubtless it was an amusing sight for passers-by, but then I always was an attention seeker. The next bike will be a lovely Challenge SL, one with a big drive-wheel at the back. I am sure that Dave was doing 40mph on his on the home stretch from Essex; I was doing an exhausted 27mph and he was streaking off ahead. > d) (and as a consequence) poor weight distribution when loaded; It's true that you have to lower the centre of gravity. Load the pannier racks too high and you wobble a bit and you have to forget signalling, etc. But it's not too bad and anyway, that's what trailers are for. I've carried some serious loads with no adverse consequence. > > c) and the aerodynamic efficiencies claimed are mostly a consequence > of the reduction of frontal area, which is in fact a geometric effect, > rather than down to aerodynamic efficiency (though there is some > efficiency gains if a streamline body is used). My recumbent is unfaired--but I sort of think that a large part of the point of a recumbent is that you *can* fair it effectively. It's just easier to do so. Even a tailbox makes a difference as you behave like a water-droplet. I guess that's why the "Rat" is so brilliant--the ultimate recumbent in my opinion because it's made by the ultimate cycling engineer, Mike Burrows. I can't comment on recumbent trikes, of course--I've never had one. All I can say is you probably can't judge bikes by your experience with trikes. But I swear by my recumbent bike, 'cos it's just great :-). ZZZZZZZZZWaaaaaaaaaaammooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! Richard. > > >