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The Bible contains similar passages. I do believe in answered prayer and I agree that this can be tested not only by observation but by an analysis and examination. I see this as more than a just a placebo effect but I also am aware that not all that pray get the answer that they are seeking. Some will be also beinfluenced and helped by the placebo effect just as they are in the scientific method. I do not see science as a good platform for explaining belief systems or belief systems alone as a good platform for explaining science. We have enough unanswered questions that are easily translated to the scientific method so although my belief system may inspire me and help me see things I may not have noticed I try to use the science discipline for science and at the same time recognize that there are questions that science is not set up to answer. Best Amy From: Ronan Conroy <[log in to unmask]> Reply-To: Ronan Conroy <[log in to unmask]> Date: Thursday, September 27, 2012 5:53 AM To: <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Teaching of complementary medicine to undergraduate medical students On 2012 MFómh 26, at 22:42, k.hopayian wrote: > Their claims that the deaf will be able to hear, that paraplegics will walk > again and that the terminally ill will have their cancer melt away can be > tested by observation. Observation = a form of evidence. This then leaves us in the position of having a large body of observational evidence for miraculous cures through the intervention of saints. Clearly observation requires some sort of post-processing before it becomes evidence. So I thought I would add to the debate one of my favourite definitions of truth, which comes from the distant past, and which discusses the place of evidence in the wider context of truth: "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it Do not believe in traditions, because they have been handed down for many generations Do not believe in anything, because it is spoken and rumoured by many Do not believe in anything, simply because it is found written in your books Do not believe in anything, merely on the authority of your teachers and elders But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it" This is a complex definition. It requires, as Dr Hopayian points out, observation, but also analysis. It also requires a process of integration between observation and underlying theory, but and this is where it's an interesting definition for evidence based health truth must entail benefit, and this benefit must entail the wider good, not just personal good. And, finally, truth, in this perspective, is not just knowledge but entails a lived commitment. The source? It is from the Kalama Sutta, one of the discourses attributed to the Buddha. Ronán Conroy [log in to unmask] Associate Professor Division of Population Health Sciences Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland Beaux Lane House Dublin 2