It would be more helpful if you explained what your own motivation was in pursuing a clear as day sensationalist Islamophobic line of inquiry and why you are lumping all Muslims into the same camp?
I will answer your question partially and say that where extremism is concerned in the Islamic world all roads lead straight to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia with its Wahhabi ideology; its policies; and the persistence of Western governments in maintaining close political and economic ties to this infernal political entity in the Arabian peninsula, not to mention dependency on its oil.
But all Muslims are not Wahhabis. In fact more Muslims are daily a victim to these heretical fascists then almost anyone else.
Please be a little more precise in your terms and distinctions.
NOn Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 11:22 PM, OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU <[log in to unmask]> wrote:It would be helpful, Azal, if you were to explain your rationale for the links you provide in terms of how they help to contextualize the recurrent history of murderous action in the name of Islam. .
toyinOn Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:17 PM, N.W. Azal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:http://www.loonwatch.com/2012/09/the-tragic-consulate-killings-in-libya-and-americas-hierarchy-of-human-life/
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 11:09 PM, OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I did not notice your reference to an academic listserve, Noah.
I am arguing for action that will protect everyone, particularly scholars and creative people, against violent reactionary forces that are enemies of the culture of critical examination and imaginative interpretation that is the heart of scholarship and creativity.
That is the rationale for posting my call on a academic listerve, so that you and your colleagues may take action that could protect you and them against murderers who roam the world trying to murder intellectual and creative culture in the name of their religion.
toyinOn Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:03 PM, OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I have explained my rationale at length.
toyinOn Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:58 PM, Noah Gardiner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Toyin,
As to the point of the film being 'informative', as you call it...Even if this were transparently true (and as it is, it's something that could be construed only through an incredibly tendentious reading of the sources), the inclusion of occasional items drawn from the historical record into a mass of hateful satire does not make something legitimately 'informative'. That's like promoting the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and saying 'but some Jews really are bankers'.
The film shows us Muhammad invoking Koranic verses to justify his sexual tastes.
That can be corroborated with reference to his life.
As for the entirely separate issue of extremist reactions to such things as this stupid film, or to such compelling works of art as Rushdie's _Satanic Verses_, of course it's morally inexcusable to use violence in response to such things. The fact that British TV pulled what sounds like an interesting special on academic debates surrounding the accuracy of the sources on early Islam (debates that have been going on for decades now, without violence, as you'd know if you'd read any academic studies of early Islam), is also deplorable. Surely, however, you can deplore these things without being so intellectually dishonest as to defend the intellectual value of trash like the 'Innocence of Muslims'.
So please explain what you hope to achieve by circulating this film, because, as I normally quite enjoy your contributions here, I would hate to think that you (like the film-makers) only hope that it will provoke more violence and Western retaliation. What is it you think you're achieving by putting this (rather off-topic) call out on an academic listserv?
- Noah
I am starting with this film because it is the spark of the latest outrage from violent Islamic extremists.
Frankly, my purpose is to demonstrate that it is the duty of Muslims to do what you are doing now, challenging criticism of their religion through debate, not kill people, a style of response that has come to characterize that religion.
There is an ad portraying Jesus and his disciples as rats using the canonical motif of the Last Supper. Most people dont even know of it. People complained against the Marithe and Francois Girbaud ad using the Last Supper motif in portraying Jesus and his disciples as sexy female models. The ad was banned after it was ruled against by the Italian Advertising Standards authority and a judge in Paris, and all monies spent in relation to the ad was reimbursed by the Catholic Church. Nobody died or suffered any threats.
Why must a particular religion hold the world to ransom?
These violent Islamic extremists are ruled by a militant mentality and the world would do well to relate to them with a militant spirit.
They are impervious to reason, and some Muslims are already jubilating over the latest horror perpetrated in the name of this inhuman mentality. It was this jubilation that made me take this action.
Islam is the only religion in the world that continues to be characterized buy such consistent horror.
All other religions have refined themselves but the story is different in Islam.
Violent Islamists, individually and in groups, engage in regular orgies of killing in the name of their religion while other Muslims often maintain silence, give tacit support, while some practically justify this horrible behavior in the name of 'provocation' or offer feeble criticism.
All over the world, there is nowhere people are safe from these blood thirsty and inhuman violent Islamic extremists.
They are prepared to kill in broad daylight anywhere and go to prison for it.
This world wide murderous fanaticism is evident in the murder of Theo Van Gogh for his film Submission on abuses of women in Islam. Theo was killed in the Netherlands, not in an Islamic country. . The Ayatollah Khomeini sentenced the English Indian novelist Salman Rushdie to death and so many died for a book challenging the image of Muhammad. Recently, the English TV Channel 4 canceled showing of a film exploring claims of Islam because the maker of the film had been receiving death threats.
Violent counter action cannot be advised but some forceful action against such mentalities must be adopted.
These violent extremists have constituted themselves into a global force of violent deterrent. This self organization as a strike force active anywhere in the world must be forcibly countered. As it is, they consider nobody to be safe from their attacks. Such horrible impunity must come to an end.
thanks
toyin
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 8:19 PM, Noah Gardiner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Toyin,
While the film occasionally draws on the historical record, such as Muhammad's multiple marriages, sometimes to people 'underage' by modern standards, these are entirely clouded by a thick coating of completely fictional events and a tone that's entirely hateful in the worst tradition of, for for example, anti-Jewish propaganda films. To take one example, the notion that Muhammad had his first vision while his head was between an old woman's legs has no basis in any material from the period; it's simply made up from thin air to denigrate the notion that Muhammad received communications from God. Not to mention that the film's portrayal throughout of Muhammad as a bumbling idiot is obviously calculated to offend, not to inform. I'm frankly shocked that you would represent this film as 'informative'.
- Noah
On 9/12/2012 3:05 PM, OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU wrote:
The film is informative about negative aspects of Muhammed's life.
toyin
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Noah Gardiner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Toyin,
I'm confused by this post. You say that "The call is not to circulate material representing uninformative denigration of Islam," but then you give several links to the (already easily available and now quite well-publicized) film 'Innocence of Muslims', which is the very definition of "uninformative denigration of Islam." How do you reconcile these two things?
- Noah
-- Noah Gardiner Doctoral candidate, Dept. of Near Eastern Studies University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
On 9/12/2012 2:43 PM, OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU wrote:
CALL FOR GLOBAL MILITANT ACTION OF INFORMATION DISSEMINATION AGAINST VIOLENT ISLAMISM EXTREMISTS
DISTRIBUTE ANTI-MUHAMMED FILM "INNOCENCE OF MUSLIMS"
Oluwatoyin Vincent Adepoju
I hereby call for a global militant action and movement of information dissemination directed against against violent Islamic extremism.
Such an initiative is vital to demonstrate to Muslims that the more they choose violence to silence criticism of their religion, the more such criticism will be forthcoming.
The kind of militancy I have in mind is a militancy of information dissemination and not of physical or verbal violence.
As many people as possible should make it their business to disseminate as widely as possible information critically analyzing Islam, to demonstrate that no group is above analysis and criticism.
The call is not to circulate material representing uninformative denigration of Islam. The call is to distribute as widely as possible material that will help point out the negative and, ideally, the positive aspects of Islam. This will assist in compelling Muslim extremists to recognize the fact that, like everything in this imperfect world, their religion must have its negative sides and that criticism of that religion is part of the human need for assessment of every aspect of existence.
I begin with distributing the trailer of the film "Innocence of Muslims" in response to which Islamists carrying heavy weaponry stormed US embassies in Libya and Egypt, killed the US ambassador to Libya and members of his staff and burnt down the embassy building in Benghazi on September 11, 2012.
The Mail has graphic pictures and a comprehensive report on this.
I will distribute this call on as many online platforms as I can .
Wikipedia
Innocence of Muslims
Central page on Youtube:
Innocence of Muslims
Trailers
1 . Innocence of Muslims
2.Innocence of Muslims
3. Innocence of Muslims
4. Innocence of Muslims
5. Innocence of Muslims
Google hits for
1. Innocence of Muslims
2. Attacks on US embassies in Cairo and Libya
Also posted on
Blogger : Exploring Islam
Scribd
-- Noah Gardiner Doctoral candidate, Dept. of Near Eastern Studies University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
-- Noah Gardiner Doctoral candidate, Dept. of Near Eastern Studies University of Michigan, Ann Arbor
-- Noah Gardiner Doctoral candidate, Dept. of Near Eastern Studies University of Michigan, Ann Arbor