I would have to agree with Nick. There have been a number of off-topic posts recently and while one poster was roundly castigated by various list members, other posts similarly unrelated to the academic study of magic have passed without comment.

The post that prompted a spasm of extremely negative comments was concerned with i) religion ii) contemporary social manifestations of religious commitment and iii) the association of religious commitment with violence.

If such a post was profoundly off-topic, I am confused as to how the current topic can be regarded as acceptable.

My own view is that magic touches, at least tangentially, on such a range of disciplines and areas of enquiry that it is probably more sensible to take a relaxed view of potentially off-topic postings. However, if there is going to be an attempt to silence potentially off-topic discussions it should be consistent.

Bw

Jon

From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of David Mattichak [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 22 September 2012 08:50
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Religious Teachings

Personally I don't think that this is off topic and it is interesting to read James' response. I tend to agree with him too.

My own understanding of magick is heavily influenced by religion. It would seem to me to be hard to separate the two.

David

> Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2012 08:32:43 +0100
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Religious Teachings
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> Is this thread, beginning with Julie post, not off-topic?
>
> This is the list for the academic study of magic.
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of James John Bell
> Sent: 22 September 2012 00:33
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Religious Teachings
>
> Julie,
>
> A religion and politics question, those are always fun.
>
> There are folks on this list with more knowledge in this arena than myself,
> though I do work in the field of constructing political narratives and
> religious narratives are unavoidable so here is my answer regarding the
> "trend of the moment" - I'm curious if others feel the same at all, which is
> why I'm postulating this takeaway on current religious events.
>
> What's going on in North Africa is bigger than the response to a film, and a
> response to US foreign policy, there is for lack of a better word a
> "reformation" that has begun sweeping the Islamic world. The movements call
> themselves reform versus schism, but it is definitely underway, and many of
> the leaders have been hunted down and killed -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_movements_within_Islam
>
> Islam took off around 6-700AD, so it's reaching that volatile 14-1500 year
> mark. Sociologists have tracked world religions and theologians have
> suggested that what Islam is experiencing is similar to what Christianity
> went through in the 1500's - a period of violent reformation. The Muslim
> faith has not yet had such a massive reformation period until now.
>
> By comparison, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Kingdoms would be similar to the
> Roman Catholic, Anglican, and Eastern Orthodox fundamentalist Christian
> Kingdoms of the 16th century - those Kings who recognized the supreme
> authority of the Vatican and the Pope. Every other Christian revolted and
> became the 33,000 estimated denominational offshoots of Protestantism.
>
> North Africa, via Egypt, under control of the Muslim Brotherhood now, is the
> extension of such supreme fundamentalist religious authority. Look to the
> bloody wars in Europe that were fought between the Catholic Kings and
> Protestant German Princes in the 1500's for a potential look at what is
> about to go down, or has been going down, across the Middle East among the
> Arab Princes and their Kingdoms as they take sides in the wars of this
> Muslim reformation.
>
> Mecca in Saudi Arabia is to Islam what Rome is to all Catholics and what
> Jerusalem in Israel is to all Jews - those are the strategic centers for the
> three major offshoots of western belief systems (If the major Protestant
> offshoots had a center it might be Germany, but for example the Mormons
> don't even consider themselves protestants technically and thus their
> religious center is Salt Lake City). I'm using the broad definition that
> Protestants are any Christian belief systems that do not recognize the
> authority of the Pope and the Vatican and emerged after around 1500. Thus
> the Coptics who splintered from the Catholics in the 5th century fall into
> another category.
>
> Anyway this is definitely one reason the US stands with fundamentalist Saudi
> Arabia, it's a center of religious power for the entire region, just like
> America's other good buddy Israel and Jerusalem and it being the center of
> Jewish authority in the entire region.
>
> Again, I understand there are huge complexities at work here that create all
> sort of exceptions to what I'm putting out as a trend here, but this is one
> attempt at a lens - to use past religious history - that I have found to
> interpret recent global events and trends through.
>
> James
>
> On 9/21/12 2:58 PM, "Julie S Maclure" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > I came across this link:
> >
> > http://www.victoria.ac.nz/sacr/about/overview-intros/religious-studies
> >
> > What do you think ?
> > How does religious beliefs differ from country to country, and what
> influences
> > the trend of the moment ?