HI Just picked up on this so hope I have not missed the point but thought
I Would share guidance our consultant put in place
Hope this helps
Debbie
Fitness to
attend formal meetings e.g. disciplinary, capability, grievance
etc:
Advice based on Society of
Occupational Medicine recommendations
An employee is fit to attend if the
following criteria are met:
·
Employee has the
ability to understand the issue being addressed
·
Employee has the
ability to distinguish right from wrong
·
Employee is able
to instruct a representative to represent their interests
·
Employee is able
to understand and follow the proceedings, if necessary with extra time and
written explanation
Please
note:
The presence of a
physical illness or a mental health problem is not a contraindication to
attending if the above criteria are satisfied. It may be expected that
attendance might cause some increased anxiety or stress in the short term, but
that this would diminish once the hearing has taken place. Delaying such
procedures is likely to adversely affect health issues in the longer term, even
if the outcome of the hearing is not anticipated to be favourable to the
employee. However, if the procedure is likely to cause mental ill health to such
a degree that the individual could be a risk to themselves or others e.g. they
are likely to be plunged into total despair and attempt self-harm or could
become psychotic, the hearing should be delayed.
For physical
health problems the individual may need transport provided and should be fit
enough to be present for the duration of the hearing without significant
detriment to their health.
its a weird transition - from being the "patients"advocate to whom
they are grateful, to being a prophet of doom for their future employability,
and we all all "nurses". If I had a pound for every time someone said to me
"Call yourself a nurse...?" After many mistakes in my early OH days I
now set my stall out early, witter on incessantly about "objective clinical
evidence" and have become very clear about what is an OH v a
management issue. Steeeeeeep learning curve on occasion as I remember it. I
have a case tomorrow where it has been stated that if I dont agree with what the
employee says about his capability he will just go sick with stress......c`est
la vie, its his P45 and not mine. We all need to be mindful that
there IS personal responsibility in such cases, and our clientele are all
adults with adult choices and responsibilities. Aaaah life would be so boring
without these conundrums.....
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 19:09:53 +0100
From:
[log in to unmask]Subject: Re: [OCC-HEALTH] Consent
To:
[log in to unmask]
Haha Sharon. Thanks again.
Glad you guys are out there to offer your advice and support.
Adel
Sent from my iPhone
We`ve all been there Adel - the trick is to grow a Teflon hide
that such threats slide off of and to have confidence in your actions.
It comes with experience, and age. Just call me Ms Teflon , at my
age there is no other option!
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 18:40:25 +0100
From:
[log in to unmask]Subject: Re:
[OCC-HEALTH] Consent
To:
[log in to unmask]I
often ask manager's what they expect counselling to gain by deferring a
meeting until after counselling...often they expect it to re-assure them it is
safe to interview the employee without the employee getting upset.
Once I
explain that counselling is unlikely to be focussed on management's needs and
first couple of sessions are usually focussed on the employee 'telling their
story' and that actually the counselling sessions could actually help the
employee deal with effect of meeting they often realise there is, in most
cases, no real value to delay.
Regards, Carr
On Aug 23, 2012 7:05 PM, "Adel" <
[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
Thanks
jeremy.
I too hope not to hear from a governing body but I can't help but
worry.
I guess time will tell, I have since been advised Hr will continue
with their welfare calls. Next stage they will call him to discuss oh report
and whilst the advise is fit to attend they will arrange 2 sessions of
counselling intially as supported via his gp.
I have however now pulled
back and will allow Hr to make the referral (i have provided the counsellor
details) even though they asked me to make the referral and asked me whether
and what questions to ask. I advised this is now their decision.
They
have been supportive as they now have a copy of the letter the employee sent
me at their request.
Although I believe I can justify my reasons for my
advice / recommendations should it go further. It's just the unknown and
waiting to see is a letter going to land on my doorstep.
Thank you for
your input though.
Adel
Sent from my iPhone
On 23 Aug
2012, at 14:23, Jeremy RF Smith <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
Hi Adel,
I've just been involved in a similar situation
to you. Client referred for fitness to attend a disciplinary, off sick
due to this, s/b GP and signed off - no treatment commenced. Using the
4 questions:
1. Does the employee have the ability to understand the
allegations made against them?
2. Does the employee have the ability to
distinguish right from wrong?
3. Is the employee able to instruct a
friend or lawyer or any other relevant representative to represent their
interests?
4. Does the employee have the ability to understand and follow
the proceedings, if necessary with extra time and written
explanation?
I explained that in my opinion they were fit to attend
as only by sorting out the cause of the problem was there going to be any
resolution, they replied that they disagreed with me, I acknowledged their
feelings and pointed out that their employer had asked for my opinion and
not theirs - very sensitively of course. I then was informed by the
employer that the client was going to take out proceedings against me for
this, although I don't know what they hope to gain by that because in my
mind if they are able to instruct a solicitor to do this then it goes to
prove that I was correct in my opinion!
I haven't heard anything
since and don't expect to....
Thankfully I didn't go into OH to make
friends with my patients so have put it down to experience and don't think
it likely that I would do anything differently in the future. Time
will tell I'm sure,
Keep
smiling,
Rgds,
Jeremy
********************************
Please
remove this footer before replying.
OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html
CONFERENCES
AND STUDY DAYS:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH
********************************
Please
remove this footer before replying.
OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html
CONFERENCES
AND STUDY DAYS:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH
********************************
Please remove this footer before replying. OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html
CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH ********************************
Please remove this footer before replying. OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html
CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH
******************************** Please remove this
footer before replying. OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html
CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH ********************************
Please remove this footer before replying.
OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html
CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH
********************************
Please remove this footer before replying.
OCC-HEALTH ARCHIVES:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/occ-health.html
CONFERENCES AND STUDY DAYS:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/cgi-bin/filearea.cgi?LMGT1=OCC-HEALTH
