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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture sorry, it appears that tinyurl.com is malfunctioning. try this for the first tinyurl below (Fulbert's Chartres) http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?op2=or;rgn1=chartres_fn;rgn2=chartres_fn;q1=FCMNA4F034R;q2=FCMNA4F034R2;size=20;c=chartres;back=back1344002440;subview=detail;resnum=2;view=entry;lastview=thumbnail;cc=chartres;entryid=x-fcmna4f034r2;viewid=FCMNA4F034R2.TIF and this, for the second (oubliettes) http://www.google.com/search?q=oubliette &hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=05I&rls=org.m ozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvnsa&source =lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=AdEbUNjtFITm2gX_s IGYAg&ved=0CEgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=895#h l=en&client=firefox-a&hs=75I&rls=org.moz illa:en-US:official&tbm=isch&q=oubliette +castle&revid=444113384&sa=X&ei=CNEbUJmB D-Wg2QWqh4DYBw&ved=0CFQQgxY&bav=on.2,or. r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=e1b45a3b8f62988c&biw= 1280&bih=895 c ------ Original Message ------ From: James Bugslag <[log in to unmask]> >> It is difficult to generalize about how any building "looks" in the 12th century. In this case, there is certainly nothing about the representation that picks it out as a prison. It is a very generic "building" which is mostly doorway, to show that St Peter is leaving it. It might also be a town,or a house, although if it were supposed to be a church, there may well be a more prominent tower or a rounded bit to signify an apse. like: http://tinyurl.com/co4c75h or, a cross --http://www.angelfire.com/de/centrechartraine/images/ETCL1d3.JPG and/or, a weathervane (sometimes a cock). or, a statue --like the St. Michael on the famous "waterworks" drawing of Canterbury http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/gaddis/hst310/nov15/Watersystem.jpg the only thing which strikes me as particularly Prisonesque about the Le Mans example http://www.flickr.com/photos/22274117@N08/2209088724/lightbox/ is, perhaps, the absence of windows in the building behind the tower (note the more "standard" representation of building-with-fenestration in the Canterbury drawing. that being said, "prisons" --strong places in which to securely hold captives-- must have been pretty common in cc. 11-13, since one of the Favorite Sports of the 1% was "Capture the Flag." i.e., grab your opponent in a "feudal war" and hold the guy for ransom, in some secure place where his own crew and family couldn't rescue him. this usually would have been somewhere within the _castrum_ of the victor > --perhaps (but not necessarily) in the central tower, though probably not in the most comfortable quarters therein (usually on the top story, Room With a View?). more likely, your average prison probably looked like something on this page http://tinyurl.com/cd44u6c otOh, castrums were good places to stash anyone you wished to keep out of circulation, for whatever reason. in 1193 August Phil took some sort of violent aversion to his new queen, Ingeborg of Denmark, and locked her up in his stronghold at Etampes, which, in those days, probably looked a bit more like this http://fr.topic-topos.com/image-bd/france/91/tour-de-guinette-etampes.jpg than this http://www.christusrex.org/www2/berry/f8v.html where he securely kept her (from liberation by her outraged family members), while he tried, unsuccessfully, to get an annulment from the Pope (not being a Kennedy, he didn't make it). >For the most part, though, the vocabulary of architecture at the time, although generally inherited from late antiquity through Carolingian intermediaries, works a bit like Lego. does that mean it makes a wonderful Christmas gift for young kids? c ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html