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If we don't stop this now, I predict, based on years of experience, that this discussion will descend quickly into meaninglessness. Being a staunch anti-theist, I've had to bite my tongue nearly clean through to contain myself, but contain myself I did. This group is for biomimetics (and the occasional joke). Let's keep it that way. Julian, for what it's worth, I tell that joke irregularly to my students, usually around exam time. I've never had any complaints. /fas On 25 August 2012 10:02, Adrian Bowyer <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Newton - though deeply religious - was not, technically, a Christian > as he did not believe in the Trinity (despite attending the college of > that name). > > But I think that this is now getting a bit off topic... > > Best wishes > > Adrian > > On 25/08/12 13:38, Stuart Burgess wrote: > > Beto > > > > Your (sweeping) statement in your previous email "unscientificism is at > > the very core of christianity" did not sound very tolerant and I am sure > > that Sir Isaac Newton would have disagreed with you! > > > > Stuart Burgess > > > > On Sat, August 25, 2012 2:47 am, Beto Cruz wrote: > >> now, if all the religious people in the world had this approach of > >> understanding and tolerance, the problem of fundamentalism would be > >> solved... > >> > >> peace be unto you bro.. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> From: Hisham Abdel-Aal <[log in to unmask]> > >> To: [log in to unmask] > >> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 7:06 PM > >> Subject: Re: I know it's not biomimetics, but . . . > >> > >> > >> As a Muslim I can claim that no other religion has been stabbed at, at > >> least lately, more than Islam and its followers :) yet I don't find that > >> particular post offensive. My question to each of you, regardless of > >> religious notions, had you had a student who gave such an answer > (provided > >> that he/she are real, what would you feel about him and why?? I argue > that > >> for a real scientist or for those who value ideas, such a student would > be > >> the pride of his/her Professor. Frankly if one's belief is threatened > >> because of an internet posting, that is more of a reason for a self > pause > >> and re-evaluation. My sincere apologies if I offend any one, peace. > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 2:28 PM, Julian Vincent < > [log in to unmask]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> Sorry if you find it offensive. However, if you read it carefully you > >> will see that it applies equally to all religions and beliefs that have > >> some sort of eternal reward and punishment system built in to them. I > am > >> sure that if it were translated into other languages it would find > exactly > >> the same resonance. The argument presented could not function if it > took > >> a sectarian point of view. And the story ultimately relates to human > >> behaviour rather to any particular morality. So please don't feel that > >> your beliefs are being unfairly targeted. Any strong belief system can > >> cope with humour. > >>> > >>> Best wishes > >>> Julian > >>> > >>> > >>> On 24 Aug 2012, at 19:08, Prof Andy McIntosh wrote: > >>> > >>>> Julian - As a Christian I am pretty saddened that you have allowed > this > >>>> on > >>>> the biomimetics link. The article you forwarded I know is tongue in > >>>> cheek, > >>>> but pertains to (in the main) Christian teaching of a real place of > >>>> eternal > >>>> punishment. The subject matter and the references to 'Hell freezing > >>>> over,' > >>>> 'Hell let loose,' and immorality I was not expecting on this > >>>> professional > >>>> link which in other respects I have found to be scientifically > >>>> valuable. > >>>> > >>>> Regards - Andy > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Professor Andy C. McIntosh DSc, FIMA, C.Math, FEI, C.Eng, FInstP, > >>>> MIGEM, > >>>> FRAeS > >>>> > >>>> Professor of Thermodynamics and Combustion Theory, > >>>> Energy and Technology Innovation Initiative (ETII) > >>>> School of Process, Environmental and Materials Engineering, > >>>> University of Leeds, > >>>> LEEDS > >>>> LS2 9JT > >>>> U..K. > >>>> Phone : +44-113-343 2506 > >>>> Fax : +44-113-246 7310 > >>>> http://www.engineering.leeds.ac.uk/people/speme/staff/a.c.mcintosh > >>>> ########################################################### > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Engineers and biologists mechanical design list > >>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Julian Vincent > >>>> Sent: 23 August 2012 22:06 > >>>> To: [log in to unmask] > >>>> Subject: I know it's not biomimetics, but . . . > >>>> > >>>> The following is an actual (?) question given on a University of > >>>> Washington > >>>> chemistry mid-term. The answer by one student was so 'profound' that > >>>> the > >>>> professor shared it with colleagues, via the Internet, which is, of > >>>> course, > >>>> why we now have the pleasure of enjoying it as well: > >>>> > >>>> Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic > >>>> (absorbs > >>>> heat)? > >>>> > >>>> Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle's Law > >>>> (gas > >>>> cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some > variant. > >>>> > >>>> One student, however, wrote the following:- > >>>> > >>>> First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So we > >>>> need > >>>> to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the rate at > >>>> which > >>>> they are leaving. > >>>> > >>>> I think that we can safely assume that once a soul gets to Hell, it > >>>> will not > >>>> leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. > >>>> > >>>> As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look at the different > >>>> religions that exist in the world today. > >>>> > >>>> Most of these religions state that if you are not a member of their > >>>> religion, you will go to Hell. Since there is more than one of these > >>>> religions and since people do not belong to more than one religion, we > >>>> can > >>>> project that all souls go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they > >>>> are, > >>>> we can expect the number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. > >>>> > >>>> Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in Hell because > >>>> Boyle's Law > >>>> states that in order for the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay > >>>> the > >>>> same, the volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are > >>>> added. > >>>> This gives two possibilities: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls > >>>> enter > >>>> Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase until > all > >>>> Hell > >>>> breaks loose. > >>>> If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls in > >>>> Hell, > >>>> then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell freezes over. > >>>> So which is it? If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa > during > >>>> my > >>>> Freshman year that, 'It will be a cold day in Hell before I sleep with > >>>> you,' > >>>> and take into account the fact that I slept with her last night, then > >>>> number > >>>> two must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has > >>>> already > >>>> frozen over. > >>>> > >>>> The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it > >>>> follows > >>>> that it is not accepting any more souls and is therefore, > >>>> extinct......leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a > >>>> divine > >>>> being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept shouting 'Oh my > God.' > >>>> > >>>> THIS STUDENT RECEIVED AN A+. > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Hisham A Abdel-Aal, PhD, > >> Professor > >> Laboratoire de Mécanique et Procédé de Fabrication (LMPF, EA4106) > >> Arts et Métiers Paris Tech. > >> Rue St Dominique, BP 508, 51006 Châlons-en-Champagne Cedex, FRANCE > >> Téléphone : +33 (0)3 26 69 26 91 94 > >> Fax : +33 (0)3 26 69 91 76 > >> [log in to unmask] > >> [log in to unmask] > > > > > -- \V/_ Filippo A. Salustri, Ph.D., P.Eng. Mechanical and Industrial Engineering Ryerson University 350 Victoria St, Toronto, ON M5B 2K3, Canada Tel: 416/979-5000 ext 7749 Fax: 416/979-5265 Email: [log in to unmask] http://deseng.ryerson.ca/~fil/