medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
See J Goeing, "the invention of transubstantiation," Traditio 46 (1991),
where he dates the first use of the term to the early 12th cent., at least
a generation before Alain.
Not much originates with Aquinas in medieval theology, but he is still a
fine theologian.
Jim
On Tuesday, July 24, 2012, Andrew Larsen wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> Aristotle's ideas were percolating into Western Europe over the later 12th
> century, both in his own works and through Arabic and Jewish philosophers.
> In 1210, Aristotle's ideas were condemned at the Council of Sens and in
> 1215, they were banned from study at Paris (unsuccessfully, since half a
> century later they had come to dominate much of the university's
> curriculum). So it doesn't surprise me at all that Alain of Lille would be
> familiar with them. They were much discussed and were essentially on the
> cutting edge of late 12th century thought.
> One article that might help you is Gary Macy, "The Dogma of
> Transubstantiation in the Middle Ages" in *Journal of Ecclesiastical
> History* (1994) pp. 11-41. He discusses the various theories of
> transubstantiation and real presence in considerable detail.
>
> Andrew E. Larsen
> Marquette University
>
> On Jul 24, 2012, at 12:16 PM, Rachel Ernst wrote:
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> I am in the process of working on one of Alain of Lille's lesser known
> works and I have encountered something that seems anachronistic and I was
> hoping for some guidance. In this work, Alain refers to transubstantiation
> in Aristotelian phraseology using words like 'accident' and so on. However,
> this pre-dates Aquinas's definition of transubstantiation in Aristotlian
> terms by a good 30-40 years. Moreover, it was also written at about the
> same time that Aristotle's works were being translated into Latin in
> Western Europe, so it is possible, but unlikely that Alain would have even
> been familar with his idea of physics.
> Or is it?
> My questions are: Were the ideas of Aristotle that were later incorporated
> into the doctrine of the Real Presence discussed in any other classical
> work that would have been accessible to a medieval audience?
> Were there any ideas regarding how the bread and wine physically changed
> into the body and blood of Christ circulating around this time that may
> have pre-empted these ideas?
> Any books/ articles that discuss 11th-12th century understandings of
> transubstantiation?
> Thanks for the help!
>
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James R. Ginther, PhD
Professor of Medieval Theology
& Director,
Center for Digital Theology
Saint Louis University
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