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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture No help to C., however, just a little point about writing from dictation (or from a public sermon/announcement/what have you)... It dates back to Sumer and Akkad -- at the very least. Definitely not an invention of the MA or Augustine or Plato or Hammurabi or Gudea, for that matter. It was SOP for more than four thousand years. That's what professional scribes did -- take words down from dictation. That's what professional stone scribes did: write the words down from dictation and then a stone carver carved it in stone for us to find a couple or four thousand years later. Was Bernie's sermon taken down? Quite possible. It should be mentioned that it was unlikely to have been one scribe, though. Scribes worked in teams of from two to six, depending upon what was being dictated. Court records apparently (at least in Egypt) were written down by individual scribes -- usually three -- and then compared to make sure that nothing was missed... a technique that has already been mentioned in this thread. Bob, there is, but not as much as one would think. For some reason, the concept that scribes only copied seems equally set in stone. Bede, for instance, had two scribes, the hands of both appear in the Moore Bede. He dictated it; that's the original. I had fun the last time I was at the Epigraphic Museum in Athens pointing out to two excited junior archaeologists where the stone scribes took turns It appears that on stone, at least on those enormous stelae, there was enough ink for the scribes to average out at 13 letters for each scribe's turn. (Those were large letters -- had to be for the text to be readable at 4 meters -- way up there.) Oh, well, back to my cyber cubby hole. Rochelle At 21:04 26/04/2012, you wrote: >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > >On producing "publlshed" works from notes taken, >recall Aristotle's "Nichomacean [and other's] >Ethics" for an early example of a listener's >notes becoming the text (whether Nicomachos was >acting as an official transcriber is another >matter of which I know nothing). And apparently >Origen used (official?) recorders to produce >some of his works -- see the recent review of >his Homilies on Genesis, for example. There >seems to have been a long tradition of this >sort, not to mention the practice of >transcribing court proceedings as well. Surely >there must be a vast modern bibliography on >these matters, although that might not help CC in his quest(s). > >Bob Kraft, UPenn > >Christopher Crockett wrote: >>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >> >>i "accidentally" came across a non-academic discussion of "Information >>Hoarders" >> >>http://www.salon.com/2012/04/25/information_hoarders_salpart/?source=newsletter >> >>which happened to contain this interesting Factoid: >> >>"Taking notes during sermons started in the Middle Ages. The work of a great >>sermonist like Bernard of Clairvaux survived because he would plant a >>secretary in the audience to take notes while he preached. Bernard would >>finalize his sermon based on these notes and release it for 'publication' by >>copying." >> >>does anyone know where i might find a serious discussion of Bernie's methods >>for putting together the final, "published" versions of his sermons? >> >>i suppose that the subject might be discussed somewhere in Jean Leclercq's >>"Recueil d’études sur Saint Bernard et ses ecrits" (Rome: Edizioni di >>Storia e letterature, 1962)? >> >>or not? >> >>or where? >> >>specifically, the historian of the 2nd Crusade, >>Odo of Deuil, says that Bernie >>preached a sermon on the third day of the great council which Louis VII >>assembled in February of 1147 at Etampes, at which Suger was designated to be >>Regent during the king's absence in the East. (Odo also tells us that the >>council began on "Circumdederunt Me Sunday.") >> >>i am trying --with no success, as yet-- to identify what the subject of that >>sermon might have been. >> >>i can't seem to find a pre-lent sermon which >>fits in with the Mare's Nest i am >>trying to construct, so i'm reluctantly coming >>around to the opinion that this >>particular sermon was never "published." >> >>being severely Sermoniacally Challenged, any thoughts on how i might go about >>solving this little Conundrum would be greatly appreciated. >> >>c >> >>********************************************************************** >>To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >>to: [log in to unmask] >>To send a message to the list, address it to: >>[log in to unmask] >>To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >>to: [log in to unmask] >>In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >>[log in to unmask] >>For further information, visit our web site: >>http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html > >********************************************************************** >To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >to: [log in to unmask] >To send a message to the list, address it to: >[log in to unmask] >To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >to: [log in to unmask] >In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >[log in to unmask] >For further information, visit our web site: >http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html