Thanks Neil for this great discussion.

Is it possible that most practitioners would love to understand EIP as (B) practice informed on the cumulation/totality of research but unfortunately often end up with (A) practice informed by any piece (or pieces) of evidence.

This is again possibly due to the fact that cumulation/totality of research depends on 'as far as such cumulation exists' and is accessible to the practitioner?

regards, rakesh

On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 6:49 PM, Neil Pakenham-Walsh, UK <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hi Justus,

My original post was intended to explore the question of whether (and how frequently) health professionals or others misunderstand EIP to mean (A) practice informed by any piece (or pieces) of evidence, rather than (B) practice informed on the cumulation/totality of research, as far as such cumulation exists and is accessible to the practitioner. I think most of us are agreed that (A) is not EIP, whereas (B) is a necessary component of EIP. But I have not yet learned from others on the group the answer to my original question above. Perhaps it is just that I have, by chance, spoken to many health professionals who believe (A), when in fact most health professionals worldwide understand that (B) is a necessary component of EIP.

I recognise clinical judgement as one of the three fundamental elements of EIP. Any practitioner who lacks appreciation of totality of evidence, who lacks clinical judgement, and/or who lacks the ability to inform patient choice - any of these are liable to provide substandard healthcare. All are necessary for EIP.

The discussion of whether and how we can measure clinical judgement is a related but different discussion. It is certainly relevant to EIP and I look forward to comments from others with more expertise in this area than me.


Best wishes,
Neil

Dr Neil Pakenham-Walsh MB,BS, DCH, DRCOG
Coordinator, HIFA2015 and CHILD2015
Co-director, Global Healthcare Information Network
Corner House (John Kibble Room)
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At 13:28 12/04/2012, Justus Krabshuis wrote:
Neil,

How is it that we always focus on the 'evidence' part of the equation and invariably take 'clinical expertise' for granted - the very quality we should hope to strengthen with EBP
Is this because we cannot measure 'clinical expertise' ? or can we?
Any evidence here ? Is there a scale ?
Best
Justus




On 12/04/2012 14:17, Swennen, M.H.J. wrote: 

Hi Neil,



What about...



Evidence-based Practice (EBP) is a problem solving approach that can be
applied to clinical decision making. EBP is believed to reduce
unwarranted variations in clinical decisions by assisting clinicians in
the translation of both latest best research evidence and clinical
experience into individualized patient care.



Best wishes,

Maartje



________________________________
Van: Evidence based health (EBH)
[
[log in to unmask]] namens Anoop Balachandran
[[log in to unmask]]
Verzonden: donderdag 12 april 2012 14:10
To:

[log in to unmask]
Onderwerp: Re: Definitions of EBM/EBP

Hi Neil,

If I get it right, it is the "best research available".So if
there are no systematic reviews, you just go down the levels of evidence
and pick the next best one RCT, Observational study and so forth. But as
you go down the levels, the uncertainity goes up too.

This is from Sharon.E Strauss Book- Evidence Based Medicine ( How to
Practice and teach it)

Thanks!
Anoop



On Thu, Apr 12, 2012 at 2:56 AM, Neil Pakenham-Walsh, UK
<
[log in to unmask]
<
mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Thanks David and all,

Has anyone collated the definitions of EBM and/or EBP? Is there a
consensus definition?

Many (most) of the definitions that I have seen talk about 'available
evidence' but do not make it clear that this means 'all available
evidence'. In my understanding, EBP is fundamentally about cumulation of
evidence (usually in the form of systematic reviews). I hear, very often,
health professionals, researchers and others worldwide apply erroneously
the term EBP to include practice that is supported by a single research
study that the practitioner has identified.

Best wishes,
Neil

At 20:03 11/04/2012, you wrote:
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by
bofur.jiscmail.ac.uk<
http://bofur.jiscmail.ac.uk> id q3BJ3tmP011335


This is what the Scout Report finds for the phrase Evidence Based
Medicine



http://scout.wisc.edu/Archives/SPT--AdvancedSearch.php?Q=
Y&FK=Evidence-Based+Medicine&RP=10&SR=0&ST=Quick

.

A shorter URL for the above link:

.

http://tinyurl.com/7ow97sf

.

.

This is what Intute finds for Evidence Based Medicine


http://www.intute.ac.uk/cgi-bin/advancedsearch.pl?field=
All&term1=evidence+based+medicine&Search=Search&limit=
0&subject=All&coo=Any&rank=score&fielddisplay=All

.

A shorter URL for the above link:

.

http://tinyurl.com/cgdcna4

.

.

This is what Pogofrog finds for the phrase Evidence Based Medicine


http://www.pogofrog.com/results?cx=015250969076115358911%
3A_ctwnwkmr5m&cof=FORID%3A9&q=%22evidence+based+medicine%
22&as_qdr=all&sa=Search

.

A shorter URL for the above link:

.

http://tinyurl.com/84c8gse

.

.

This is what the Open Directory Project finds for the phrase Evidence
Based Medicine


http://www.dmoz.org/search?q=%22evidence+based+medicine%22

.

.

This is what Net-Gold has for the phrase Evidence Based Medicine


http://www.google.com/search?q=allintitle%3A%20globalization&hl=
en&sa=N&tab=sw#q=%22evidence+based+medicine%22+AND+%22net-gold%
22+AND+%22temple.edu<
http://22temple.edu
>%22&hl=en&prmd=imvns&filter=0&bav=
on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=193b680415c1a72a&biw=1280&bih=827

.

A shorter URL for the above link:

.

http://tinyurl.com/cn6mcql

.

.

Also of possible interest:

PERIODICALS DIRECTORIES :

PERIODICALS: DISCUSSION GROUPS :

DIRECTORIES: PUBLISHING PUBLICATION PUBLISHER BOOK PERIODICAL:

NewJour: A New Journals and Newsletters Available on the Internet


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Net-Gold/message/38220


.


.


Sincerely,
David Dillard
Temple University
(215) 204 - 4584<tel:%28215%29%20204%20-%204584>
[log in to unmask]
<
mailto:[log in to unmask]>

http://workface.com/e/daviddillard

Net-Gold

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/net-gold

http://listserv.temple.edu/archives/net-gold.html
Index: http://tinyurl.com/myxb4w

http://groups.google.com/group/net-gold?hl=en

General Internet & Print Resources

http://guides.temple.edu/general-internet
COUNTRIES

http://guides.temple.edu/general-country-info
EMPLOYMENT

http://guides.temple.edu/EMPLOYMENT
TOURISM

http://guides.temple.edu/tourism
DISABILITIES

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INDOOR GARDENING

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Educator-Gold

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Educator-Gold/
K12ADMINLIFE

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/K12AdminLIFE/
The Russell Conwell Learning Center Research Guide:
THE COLLEGE LEARNING CENTER
http://tinyurl.com/yae7w79
Information Literacy

http://guides.temple.edu/content.php?pid=22756&sid=2223487


SPORT-MED

https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/sport-med.html

http://groups.google.com/group/sport-med

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HEALTH DIET FITNESS RECREATION SPORTS TOURISM

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http://listserv.temple.edu/archives/health-recreation-sports-tourism.html


On Wed, 11 Apr 2012, Ben Goldacre wrote:

i love
thennt.com<
http://thennt.com>
Dr Ben Goldacre
Wellcome Research Fellow in Epidemiology
London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine
Keppel St, London WC1E 7HT
[log in to unmask]
<
mailto:[log in to unmask]>

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 5:50 AM, Olive Goddard
<
[log in to unmask]
<
mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

     Hi,

     Â

     The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine is always
happy to link to useful and relevant websites, but we realise that we
have not updated these for some time.

     Â

     If you could send me the URLs of appropriate
websites I should be most grateful.

     Â

     All good wishes,

     Â

     Olive

     Â

     Olive Goddard

     Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine

     Department of Primary Health Care

     23 - 38 Hythe Bridge Street

     Oxford OX1 2ET

     Tel +44(0)1865
289337<tel:%2B44%280%291865%20289337>

     Fax
+44(0)1865289336<tel:%2B44%280%291865289336>

    
[log in to unmask]
<
mailto:[log in to unmask]>

    
www.cebm.net
<
http://www.cebm.net>

    

cid:d43bf047-6fd2-427e-bafe-d858f95c76b6

     Â



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