this is a query that comes up now and then:
the list is hosted on a UK academic server, and this list membership includes publishers and published authors, so we cannot allow any activity on the list that may bring it into problems with encouraging breach of copyright etc- if this were to be allowed on the list we may get closed down or sued, or both
Offlist you can, of course, email anyone with anything
thanks
Dave EOn Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 10:15 PM, OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Azal,
Are you able to give links to the library.nu replacements, privately or publicly?
I would like to go there.
toyinOn Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 4:58 PM, N.W. Azal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:There was a discussion many years ago on an academic list <adabiyat> run by Franklin Lewis about the cost breakdowns of Brill published books. Pretty much everyone associated with the Middle East Studies Association on both sides of the Atlantic were subscribed to the list and many heavyweights contributed to the discussion. The consensus was that when all costs were factored in (including costs of material), there was still no reasonable justification for the exorbitant price tags on Brill books and that Brill was making massive profits and its prices were seriously inflated.
Now neither Oxford nor Cambridge University publishers are any better, nevertheless the argument can be made that it is these ridiculously high cost books by these academic publishers which is responsible for fueling an online black market industry, if you would, which ultimately would destroy the publishing industry itself as it exists presently. I am of two minds about all this myself. Yet I can see what these old business models are doing to the future of a whole industry if they are not careful, since supply these days is only a matter of a click of a mouse and is not dependent anymore on anything but net access. Case in point: since library.nu was shut down in February/March, ten more sites like it have cropped up from domains situated where neither North American nor European courts can force them shut. Unless governments and courts in Europe, Australasia and North America decide to block entire geographic domains online, such is the future, and this will eventually have a cumulative effect for such publishers and run them out of business unless they start becoming genuinely competitive and push the costs down for hardcopies.
NOn Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Forshaw, Peter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Academic books are more expensive because of the low print run. Brill, for example, mostly intend to sell their books to academic libraries, not to individuals.I've never heard of scholars making all that much money from the royalties they get from their academic books. The percentages they get offered are low in the first place, most publishing houses are not prepared to invest much in advertising, and most bookshops reluctant to stock too many copies because of the specialist nature of the works. Some scholars, like Simon Shama must do well from their publications, but these are often cross-over books, rather than academic works, strictly speaking.I don't think being employed by an institution is always a concern when getting a book contract, because many scholarly publications are often by people still on post-doctoral fellowships rather than with tenure, but professorial status doubtless sways the bigger publishing houses.I hope that's some help.Peter
Dr Peter J Forshaw Assistant Professor for History of Western Esotericism in the Early Modern Period Center for History of Hermetic Philosophy and Related Currents University of Amsterdam Oude Turfmarkt 141-147 1012 GC Amsterdam The Netherlands Editor-in-Chief Aries: Journal for the Study of Western Esotericism Webmaster ESSWE: European Society for the Study of Western Esotericism Webmaster SHAC: Society of the History of Alchemy and Chemistry Website Center for History of Hermetic Philosophy and Related Currents
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 22 April 2012 16:02
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Looking for a publisher for translation of al-Buni's Great Sun of Gnoses
im pleased to observe that im not the only one sensitive to book prices.
academic books are generally priced higher than trade books. i wonder why.
in relation to that, i wonder what the chances are of earning a living, and a good one, from writing academic books, without being employed by an institution.
thanks
toyin
On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 2:30 PM, N.W. Azal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Yes.
On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 2:52 PM, OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I would like to understand your qualms about Brill.
Is it the pricing?
toyin
On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 1:16 PM, N.W. Azal <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
For a text such as al-Buni's the publishing arm of the Isma'ili Institute in London may be an option for me. I have some old contacts there but the problem with the Isma'ili Institute is that it takes them forever to put anything out. You mentioned the Rasa'il of the Ikhwan al-Safa': the Institute was supposed to have put out a complete annotated translation of this text by 2008. Four years have passed, and nary a word on when this complete annotated translation is supposed to come out.
I tried SUNY some years back and they told me a complete translation of al-Buni was too ambitious for them at the time. Fons Vitae (Islamic Texts Society) may be an option. I have a few old contacts there as well.
I have some moral qualms with handing my work over to Brill, for pretty much the reasons everyone knows why.
On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 1:30 PM, OLUWATOYIN ADEPOJU <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Publishers who publish related texts, including complex translations, are of course good sources to try.
Oxford University Press' 2012 religion catalogue has a number of works from the Islamic esoteric school The Brethren of Purity and they have publish consistently on Islam.
Another publisher who publishes in Islamic mysticism and philosophy is the State University of New York Press. They brought out William Chittick's two large volumes on Ibn Arabi and they are publishing a series of works in Western, Asian and possibly Islamic esotericism.
Stanford University Press UP is collaborating with the Pritzker foundation to bring out Daniel Matt's 12 volume translation of the monumental Zohar. 5 volumes have come out in the last few years.
University of Chicago Press is also publishing another massive work, the Mahabharata.
Princeton University Press, publishing excellent books in a wide range of fields, seem to have a section for works from different cultures dealing with an inspirational focus, to which your translation might be described as belonging to.
thanks
toyin
On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 7:02 AM, Noah Gardiner <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Actually, Brill's been putting out somewhat cheaper paperbacks recently. Granted, "somewhat cheaper" means in the $70-80 range, but it shows that they're at least partially aware of the pricing issue.
- Noah
On 4/21/2012 11:24 PM, Dr Dave Evans wrote:absolutely, i am not alone in referrng to Brill's output as being among the loveliest and most interesting books that no mortal can ever afford to read. If you have a university library with funds (discuss....) or can snag a review copy then that's about your only chance to see their output. The notion of a Brill trade paperback may well be anathema to them
Dave E
On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 6:15 AM, Robert Parsons <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I've never thought of Brill in those terms but you may very well be right. Clearly, for the most part, they've priced a good many of their books so high that institutions and libraries seem to be their primary market. If they produced affordable trade editions they may actually be able to turn a profit.
From: Christopher I. Lehrich <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sat, April 21, 2012 1:53:18 PM
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Looking for a publisher for translation of al-Buni's Great Sun of Gnoses
If it's a sufficiently scholarly translation, you might try Brill. They publish a lot of important texts within Islamic history, and they're largely unconcerned with making money.
Chris Lehrich
On 4/20/2012 11:36 AM, N.W. Azal wrote:The current Beirut printed edition of al-Buni and its reprints runs over 616 pages (not including index and table of contents/fihrist). The 2004 Turkish annotated translation and edition was divided into two massive volumes of over 2000/3000+ pages per volume. Serializing al-Buni is totally unfeasible, if one were to do it properly, that is. There are four books here with over 50+ chapters and numerous sub-divisions (as of the printed edition, although no consensus exists on the chapter divisions or its sub-divisions. All of these were added later). Plus there are countless diagrams, graphs and pictures. A project such as this would have to to be done much like (and even better than) how Llewelyn did Agrippa's De occulta philosophia -- and al-Buni's Great Sun of Gnoses is twice, three times Agrippa's size. The daunting scope of this project is what, I suspect, has scared off a few publishers I have been speaking to over the years.
N.W. Azal
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Karen Gregory <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hello all:
I passed the email to a friend at CUP and their response was:
"I've been finding that even books on Islamic science are rather specialized. The British have done more in your friend's area. Kegan Paul (whom we used to distribute) and Brill would be worth trying. Alternatively, the translation could be serialized in the journal he mentions. Or even excerpts, which might generate more interest among presses.
Hope this helps.
Best,
Karen
--
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Daniel Harms <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I’ll add that a request for the Shams al-Maarif in English is one of the top trending and most commented posts on my blog, so there is substantial interest.
Sincerely,
Dan Harms
Bibliographer and Instructional Services Librarian
SUNY Cortland Memorial Library
P. O. Box 2000Cortland, NY 13045
From: Society for The Academic Study of Magic [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dr Dave Evans
Subject: Re: [ACADEMIC-STUDY-MAGIC] Looking for a publisher for translation of al-Buni's Great Sun of Gnoses
one of the many reasons i love this list : )
Dave EOn Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 5:08 PM, mandrake <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
On 20/04/2012 13:57, Lil Osborn wrote:
many thanks for plug
- yes would certainly be interested personally and professionally
mogg
contacted Nima off linst
Hi Nima, Have you tried Mandrake I know Mogg is on the list.
Much love
Lil
Sent from my iPhone so please excuse the spelling.
On 20 Apr 2012, at 11:59, "N.W. Azal" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:My attempt to find a reputable publisher for my translation of al-Buni's opus magnum, the Shams al-Ma'arif al-Kubra (The Great Sun of Gnoses), seems to be going nowhere. Generally speaking, even though there is now a journal dealing with occultism in the Islamic world, most Anglophone publishers seem to be uninterested in publishing a translation of the most comprehensive Islamic hermetic text, claiming it to be, in the words of one outfit, "too arcane an area to prove a lucrative investment"; this, while there seems to be huge demand from a market of non-Arabic readers for a translation of this specific work.
I am open to suggestions as to who to talk to if anyone has any ideas or contacts.
N.W. Azal
Karen Gregory
PhD candidate
Department of Sociology
The Graduate Center
City University of New York
-- Christopher I. Lehrich Assistant Professor of Religion Boston University
-- Noah Gardiner Doctoral candidate, Dept. of Near Eastern Studies University of Michigan, Ann Arbor