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While this is usually sound advice, and is the line that I have usually taken over the years, there are times when you can do "marketing" work and follow it up with some journalism. The crucial thing is to tell the editors concerned how you came across a story and how you were involved. If the editor knows that you have done some paid-for work elsewhere - and, probably most important, they trust you to do an honest job - they may well commission work if the story is good enough. I have even done this sort of thing for the Financial Times. But, as Francis says, this is the exception rather than the rule. Most times you wouldn't even think of trying to "double dip" on commercial work, often because it is not suitable. One thing you never do - well, I never do - is to take on commercial work where they want you to pitch stories to newspapers or other media. Happy to set them up with a contact. Or even to write for the newspaper if the story is really good, but never when the source has offered money. As to EurekAlert!, it is a law unto itself and is precious beyond belief, which is why it is so baffling that some British institutions prefer paying these Americans rather than backing a local organisation like AlphaGalileo. MK From: psci-com: on public engagement with science [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Francis Sedgemore Sent: 2012-March-13 14:00 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [PSCI-COM] Nine positions in STEM education available at King's College London Colin As a journalist one must avoid actual and potential conflicts of interest. By its nature the job involves critical reporting, and for that you must be independent of your subjects. For example, if one is writing for a B2B publication on, say, the development of a novel nanomaterial with commercial potential, with academic researchers patenting their discovery and working with venture capitalists, then as a journalist you cannot then engage in corporate public relations copywriting and/or marketing within that particular science and technology sector. This can create a problem for freelance journalists with expertise in said sector, as in many cases freelancers supplement journalistic income with commercial copywriting and editing. And it's not just commercial conflicts of interest. Part of my work in recent years has included space science and engineering research and policy consulting. Some of it is with commercial concerns, and some governmental. But whichever clients I'm dealing with, I must avoid working as a journalist in the space sector. Or at least in journalistic reporting and investigation; opinion wibbling is just about acceptable, as long as affiliations are declared for all to see. School science outreach combined with journalism should not present a problem, but you must look at it on a case by case basis. As an example of the problems you can run into, recall that in recent years there has been discussion on this list about EurekAlert! de-recognising journalists, and removing their access to embargoed press releases from AAAS journals such as Science. I was myself expelled from the EurekAlert! database, on the grounds that I do not work exclusively as a journalist. This policy, while in some ways understandable, puts freelancers at a commercial disadvantage, and is therefore discriminatory. Francis On 13 Mar 12, at 13:39, Colin Stuart wrote: ''For ethical reasons one cannot do both science journalism and public outreach and/or marketing. At least not in the same areas of science communication.'' Could you elaborate on that Francis? What's the problem with doing both? I get the marketing aspect but not why you can't be a science journalist and present to the schools/public. Best wishes, Colin Stuart (http://www.colinstuart.net <http://www.colinstuart.net/> ) Freelance science communicator, writer and broadcaster. Freelance Astronomer working for Royal Observatory, Greenwich Follow me on Twitter: @skyponderer On 12 Mar 2012, at 20:11, Francis Sedgemore <[log in to unmask]> wrote: On 12 Mar 12, at 19:50, Michael Kenward wrote: Interesting news though. Someone earlier suggested that it is hard to find "PEST" jobs. This announcement, and the many others I see here, suggest that it is a lot easier to get into that domain than to get in science journalism. Indeed. With media redundancies, and freelance work drying up, I am no longer able to make a sustainable living from science journalism. I used to, albeit in the B2B sector, which by definition has a low public profile. But no longer, and I'm left considering a move to the dark side, or the abandonment of science altogether. For ethical reasons one cannot do both science journalism and public outreach and/or marketing. At least not in the same areas of science communication. There are relatively many opportunities in "PEST". The problem is that the non-university jobs tend to pay peanuts, and many appear to be aimed at young graduates. Only the law forbids employers from explicitly saying so. These new positions at Kings College will no doubt be on the union-negotiated RA and academic scales, where the pay is these days quite respectable, and often considerably greater than in the private sector. Francis -- Dr Francis Sedgemore journalist and science writer www.sedgemore.com <http://www.sedgemore.com/> ********************************************************************** Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html You may also change your settings and subscribe/unsubscribe to psci-com from the web site. Psci-com is part of the National Academic Mailing List Service, known as 'JISCMail'. It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptable Use Policy: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html Email commands: 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example, send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following message: set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens] 2. 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It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptable Use Policy: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html Email commands: 1. To suspend yourself from the list, whilst on leave, for example, send an email to mailto:[log in to unmask] with the following message: set psci-com nomail -- [include hyphens] 2. To resume email from the list, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message: set psci-com mail -- [include hyphens] 3. To leave psci-com, send an email to [log in to unmask] with the message: leave psci-com -- [include hyphens] Please allow up to 24 hours for these commands to activate. Remember that you will need to send commands using the same email address that you used to register on psci-com. To contact the Psci-com list owner, please send an email to: [log in to unmask] ********************************************************************** -- Dr Francis Sedgemore journalist and science writer www.sedgemore.com ********************************************************************** Further information about the psci-com discussion list, including list archive, can be found at the list web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/psci-com.html You may also change your settings and subscribe/unsubscribe to psci-com from the web site. Psci-com is part of the National Academic Mailing List Service, known as 'JISCMail'. It adheres to the JISCMail Acceptable Use Policy: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/acceptableuse.html and to the JISCMail guidelines for etiquette: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/etiquette.html Email commands: 1. 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