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I would echo all of Charles' comments. I did the PhD programme at Lancaster and, without wanting to sound sad, I have to say they were the best years of my life! I was given support to research topics that were central to my job, and the peer support saw me through the process and beyond. Not everyone made it to the end, for all the reasons that people have mentioned -life happens. I managed to do it within the minimum time frame by not having a life for a few years, but I enjoyed every minute of it. I envy those of you who are just starting the process, or still doing it. Enjoy! Roni Dr Veronica Bamber Director of Centre for Academic Practice Queen Margaret University Edinburgh EH21 6UU 0131 474 0000 http://www.qmu.ac.uk/cap/ [log in to unmask] From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Neame ,Charles Sent: 14 February 2012 16:39 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: If you ever considered doing a doctorate....[Scanned-Clean] Hi Debra, I think the key lies in your phrase 'motivated to complete what I start'. As your previous experience shows, it's always an uphill struggle to complete a doctorate - and if it weren't, it wouldn't be worth a light anyway. I also have 'chapter one' of an attempted PhD gathering dust on an ancient shelf somewhere, but found an EdD, some years later, to be a very different, stimulating and valuable experience. I did the IoE degree that Gwen mentions and loved it, although there were some of our group who fell by the wayside, for sure. You can never guarantee that life or disillusionment won't get in the way of a successful outcome. However, I found that the community of support over the first two years in the taught phase got me to the point where I was much better prepared for the lonelier phase that follows, and that certainly helped me follow through. And the community was still there throughout, in the background. It still is, in fact, although it's shrunk to a handful of people now, but they remain very valuable to me. My motivation (and everyone is different, of course) was first, to do something I wanted to do (as simple as that, though I kept it quiet to start with); second, to increase my professional capability and confidence (it worked very well, I must say, and this was my 'official' motivation); and third (and least), to avoid those excruciating moments in meetings in pompous ivory towers where everyone realises there's someone in the room who actually isn't a "Dr.", and they all pause for a moment and shuffle their papers awkwardly! But when I look back, it's the first reason that really counts. If you want to do it, perhaps you should! With best wishes, Charles Charles Neame The Glasgow School of Art Email: [log in to unmask] Tel: 0141 353 4560 www.gsa.ac.uk From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Debra Boyask Sent: 14 February 2012 15:53 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: If you ever considered doing a doctorate....[Scanned-Clean] Hello Gwen (et al) I have a question for people who have completed, or are at the dissertation stage, of an EdD. Having started a PhD twenty years ago which got left on the shelf when I took up full time work outside of academia for a few years, I've felt reluctant to try again until I'm absolutely sure I'm motivated to complete what I start. The EdD is obviously one option, but I'm wondering how much it would help me really. I'm sure there's a community of support and encouragement while engaged in the taught section, but how does it work beyond that? Best wishes Debra Debra Boyask, Educational Developer Faculty of Environment & Technology University of the West of England Phone 0117 3283211 From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gina Wisker Sent: 14 February 2012 15:45 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: If you ever considered doing a doctorate.... This is a great advert for prof docs Gwen! they and EdDs can provide the community which lone PhDs often fail to offer, and so increase both your chances of completing, and your chances of making long lasting links with others. Colleagues who like looking into some of the research behind doctoral experiences might like to look at the HEA funded NTFS project we completed at Brighton and Anglia on' doctoral learning journeys' (2007-2010) and the shorter piece in Educational doctorates for ESCalate, 'troublesome encounters'(2011) at Brighton, Durham and Strathclyde which looks at the necessary emotional resilience... both reports on the heacademy website . Happy to send on extracts - anything else related - all best Gina ________________________________ From: Online forum for SEDA, the Staff & Educational Development Association [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Gwen M. van der Velden [[log in to unmask]] Sent: 14 February 2012 15:25 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: If you ever considered doing a doctorate.... Dear colleagues, If you ever considered doing a doctorate and didn't get round to it 'first time' (like me), then maybe you're interested in a professional doctorate like the one I am taking at the moment. If not, I am sorry to have filled up your mailbox... Mine is a research doctorate in International Higher Education Management, offered at the University of Bath (yes, that's my own institution, but I'm no less critical, not to worry). In brief, it consists of four residentials in the first phase, each with their own research assignment to follow and then a full thesis, just like you would produce for a PhD. The big advantage of not going for the individual PhD route, but taking this type of doctorate is that you meet a group of fellow students from universities all over the world, and you build up a study network that keeps you going, inspires you and challenges you to do better than you thought you could. But you also learn how to write at publication level, even before you start on your thesis. By the time you start, you should be well prepared for 'the real thing'. Your fourth assignment is your research methodology and so you will have lots of help and assurances on that aspect before you start collecting data. In my case, I am now a year an a half into the programme. Working on finalising assignment three, I have just had my first assignment accepted for publication in an international journal (Higher Education Quarterly). The wider research and reading I've done so far on student engagement and organisational cultures has also helped inform the talks and seminars I am giving in a few universities and at conferences, and the stronger research underpinning is well received. I have also made professional and personal friends in countries across the world and this has led to new insights into how universities could be organised that I would never have had otherwise. Incredibly useful for my day to day work. In my year group there are 22 HE managers studying on the programme, from 19 different countries. And that is not unusual, it seems. The whole experience so far, has been 'brain candy' as one of my Canadian fellow students descries it. This Saturday, five of us met online to catch up on our study progress, and this is how we all keep on track with our studies. I am not writing this out of any other interest than encouraging perhaps just one or two of you, to give a doctorate a go, no matter where you are in your career. I can honestly say, it is absolutely worth it. To be fair, you may also want to have a look at alternatives, such as the Doctorate at the Institute of Education which I know some colleagues are also quite happy with. I guess there are others as well, but I'm afraid I like the Bath one so much, I didn't look that far! If you are interested, have a look at the brochure the programme team has just released: http://www.bath.ac.uk/management/dba/ . Also, feel free to drop me a line if you want to hear more about my own experiences, or talk to me at any next event we might both be at, but keep in mind, I'm still going, who knows what I'll say when I reach the other end of the course? Best wishes, Gwen van der Velden Director of Learning and Teaching Enhancement Learning and Teaching Enhancement Office Wessex House 5.38 University of Bath Claverton Down Bath BA2 7AY t: 01225 383775 m: 07891 790105 e: [log in to unmask] w: www.bath.ac.uk/learningandteaching <http://www.bath.ac.uk/learningandteaching> ___________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by MessageLabs' Email Security System on behalf of the University of Brighton. 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