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Hi Ken, One way of looking at the dinner party 'toy examples of 'wicked problem' you describe is to combine three perspectives. The first is to view it in terms of solution space. Do there exist any solutions? If not, it is not even a wicked problem. Second, is whether the specification of the problem and detail of opportunity for possible solutions is of a greater variety than the variety intrinsic to the situation itself (Ashby's Law). If not, then the design potential is insufficient/incompetent. In other words, it is unhelpful to understanding the situation it is described using concepts that oversimplify it (which I suggest is the case) . In contrast, describing a situation using tools that provide too much details is unproblematic as the excess potential detail collapses due to lack of empirical data. Third is to explore how the understanding of the situation is enhanced if you view it through a lens that offers more detail, particularly if the perspective allows viewing the feedback loops and delays in the interactions and does so in a non-linear manner. I suggest, the reality of the dinner party situation is that there are sundry influences between the individuals involved and also with the context, cultural, social, economic and other influences. When these are included as feedback loops, then, with some empirical data about the relationships (Jane bosses Peter, John is overbearing to Mike, Ann eventually always acquiesces to Jan....) , the likely behaviours leading up to, during and after the dinner party (if it happens) can be predicted in more or less detail.... and that enables one or more successful design solutions to be identified. In fact, usually these kinds of 'difficult' social interaction do not involve many feedback loops - more a lack of detail? The implication is all 'wicked problems' can be viewed in terms of 'designing interventions in non-linear multi-feedback loop socio-technical systems' and this provides a standard approach to addressing them. That is, in terms of a method of addressing them, all 'wicked problems' are similar. Best wishes, Terry === Dr Terence Love FDRS, AMIMechE, PMACM, MISI [log in to unmask] Mob: +61 434 975 848 Senior lecturer Researcher, Social Program Evaluation Research Unit Dept of Psychology and Social Sciences Edith Cowan University, Western Australia Senior Lecturer, Dept of Design Curtin University, Western Australia Honorary Fellow, Institute of Entrepreneurship and Enterprise Development Management School, Lancaster University, UK === -----Original Message----- From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ken Friedman Sent: 11 February 2012 16:56 To: Dr Terence Love Subject: Re: Wicked Problems Hi, Terry, Thanks for your reply. I see your perspective with respect to those categories of wicked problems that take the form of complex adaptive systems. It's my view that some wicked problems do, indeed, fit Rittel and Webber's criteria without necessarily involving feedback loops. The problem I described is such a problem -- three parties attempting to make a choice when none of the three accepts the preferences of the other two. While the example (dinner, a movie, etc.) is a model or a toy world problem, the problem is genuine and wicked. Other kinds of wicked problems may entail choices of medical treatment, land allocation in urban planning in a politically contestable environment, and so on. Few of these involve complex adaptive systems and some do not involve feedback loops. As I see it, the world involves many such problems. Designers of all kinds work with these kinds of problems -- including the politicians and planners to whom Rittel and Webber addressed their work, along with physicians, managers, economists, and others. Many wicked problems take the form of complex adaptive systems and other dynamic systems as you state. I suggest that there exist wicked problems of other kinds as well. Best regards, Ken Professor Ken Friedman, PhD, DSc (hc), FDRS | University Distinguished Professor | Dean, Faculty of Design | Swinburne University of Technology | Melbourne, Australia | [log in to unmask] | Ph: +61 3 9214 6078 | Faculty www.swinburne.edu.au/design