On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Christopher Crockett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

blissfully unencumbered by any actual knowledge of the situation, it seems
clear to me that the middlevil equivalent of the "Gott Mit Uns" belt buckles
of the First Collective Psychotic Episode were the "chemisettes" --small cloth
replicas of the relic of the _camesia_ of the Virgin-- which were obtained by
noble pilgrims to Chartres on their way to Do Battle in the name of Right.

Jim is the Resident Expert on this subject and can correct me when i am wrong
and say that the obtainance and acceptance of these Ju-Ju invested artifacts
must have been accompanied by:

1) some sort of [liturgical?] ceremony

which must have included

b) prayers

but apparently no trace of either has survived in the written record.

or, has it?

c

------ Original Message ------

Received: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 05:45:49 PM EST
From: Cecilia Gaposchkin <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [M-R] bibliography on the efficacy of prayer

> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>

> Dear all,
> I write to thank you for all your fantastic suggestions at this. Much of
> it I already know but not all, Paul Chandler's suggestions to look at the
> earlier commentaries is my next step.
>
> Thank you all!!
> cecilia
>
> On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Rosemary Hayes-Milligan and Andrew
> Milligan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> > John is right. There is quite a lot of this kind of thing in English
> > episcopal registers. Alison McHardy calendars several examples (largely
to
> > support the king in war and peace) in her edition of Royal Writs
Addressed
> > to John Buckingham, Bishop of Lincoln 1362-98 (Canterbury and York
Society,
> > vol 86, 1997) She does not quote the writs in full but has references to
> > Rymer's Foedera where they are printed in extenso. The Foedera is now
> > available online

http://www.british-history.ac.**uk/catalogue.aspx?gid=152<http://www.british-history.ac.uk/catalogue.aspx?gid=152>

> > .
> >
> > Rosemary Hayes
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Shinners" <
> > [log in to unmask]>

> > To: <[log in to unmask]**AC.UK

<[log in to unmask]>
> > >
> > Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2012 4:40 PM
> >
> > Subject: Re: [M-R] bibliography on the efficacy of prayer
> >
> >
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> > You've probably already got this, Cecilia, but Rosemary Horrox has a few
> > bits from English episcopal registers attaching the intercessionary
prayers
> > to be said accompanying processions against the plague (in _The Black
> > Death_, p. 111 ff.) but no descriptions of an actual procession. There's
> > also a mandate for processions against the plague and an accompaying
prayer
> > from Archbp. William Courtenay in Wilkins _Concilia_, v. 3, 156-57
> > translated in Shinners & Dohar, _Pastors and the Care of Souls in
Medieval
> > England_ pp. 285-86. I'm happy to send you a typescript of the latter.
> >
> > Somewhere in the documents about medieval Jews in Oxford there's a brief
> > description of a procession for the BVM (I think) mocked by a young
Jewish
> > man. I'd have to do a little digging to get that one but can if you'd
> > like. Some mandates to do public penance describe what the penitent
should
> > wear (usually just a shirt & barefooted) and carry in procession around
a
> > church but I don't know of any eyewitness accounts.
> >
> > Best,
> > John
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul Chandler"

<[log in to unmask]**COM<[log in to unmask]>
> > >
> > To: [log in to unmask]**UK <[log in to unmask]>

> > Sent: Friday, February 3, 2012 8:05:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [M-R] bibliography on the efficacy of prayer
> >
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> > Cecilia, you may have already done this, but I would go first to the
> > Dictionnaire de spiritualit é and hunt around under any likely keywords.
> >
> > There may be something useful in Doris L. Bergen (ed.), The Sword of the
> > Lord: Military Chaplains from the First to the Twenty-First Century
(2004).
> > It includes a chapter on The medieval military chaplain and his duties by
> > David Bachrach, which is based on his Ph.D. thesis, which may also be of
> > use. Recently there is K.A. Smith's War and the Making of Medieval
Monastic
> > Culture (2011).
> >
> > The commentaries on Exodus 17.8-16 (where Moses prays with outstretched
> > arms during the battle against the Amalekites) would also be worth
> > checking. Cornelius a Lapide's Commentaria in Sacram Scripturam usually
> > mentions the main patristic and medieval commentators on any given
passage
> > and can be a good kick-off point. -- Paul
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4 February 2012 00:15, Cecilia Gaposchkin < [log in to unmask] >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> > Hello friends,
> >
> > I am working right now on issues around ritual and liturgical
> > supplications to God ("clamours") and have come across a few explicit
> > statements about the efficacy of prayer and supplication to God. This is
> > the context of warfare, and (in the case I am thinking of, Honorius III)
> > gives a long defense, with lots of references to the Old Testament, of
how
> > prayer can turn things around for armies.
> >
> > I want to follow this up. Does anyone know of bibliography around this
> > issue, either about medieval discussions on the efficacy of
> > prayer/liturgical supplication, or - even better, the efficacy in the
> > context of war?
> >
> > Also, I'll throw this in, if anyone can point me to a contextual
> > literature on penitential processions. I have lots of references to the
> > calling of penitential processions, but I'd love to get a sense of what
> > prayers, litanies, psalms, and so forth, were actually
prescribed/performed
> > in these. If anybody has either specific (medieval) examples, or a
> > liturature that has looked into this, I'd love the reference.
> >
> > Thanks to all!
> > cecilia
> >

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