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It depends what is meant in this context by 'digital data' There is a whole spectrum of digital data exchange out there . 1. At one end there is digital data which is little more digital paper; such as *.doc(x) and *.pdf files. To put this kind of data in a different system, such as an HER, you have to read it, moderate it and then create new record(s), polygon(s) and the like. The big advantage of this method of exchanging this kind of digital data is that multiple copies can be produced at relatively little cost over and distributed over the web or via email, rather than via 'snail mail' parcels. 2. At the other end of the spectrum there is the aspiration of taking data directly one system and place it directly into another, such as your local HER. In reality there are many technical issues (geeky and IPR) that often prevent taking data from a system set up for one purpose and placing it directly into a different system created for a different purpose. Many of these technical issues can be overcome, with time and patience, as I believe is the case with PAS data and SHINE. However, I would always want to check and moderate data imported from archaeological contractors and the like, before putting it into the HER. They might be relied upon to tell me all I wished about a particular EVENT. But I would trust contractors to create new MONUMENT records? Chris From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Shaw Sent: 17 January 2012 11:09 To: Issues related to Historic Environment Records; Chris Wardle Subject: Re: Digital data from archaeological contractors Just a quick comment on Heritage Gateway data. Some of it is live from HERs, in other cases it is uploaded every so often - in my case around every 6 months so you wouldn't necessarily be getting up to date data getting it live from HG as it is configured at the moment. I am in total agreement over necessity to go over to increasing use of digital data. Asking for digital copies of reports and maps and submission of report to OASIS should be a minimum. I generally encourage submission of GIS data rather than require it - apart from where we are funding large assessment such as HLCs where we have control. Even for a small contractor the acquisition of GIS software is not a huge outlay - and is presumably tax deductible? - and the acquisition of sufficient knowledge to use it can swiftly repay itself in time saved especially now that more and more digital data is available on open access. Pity historic ordnance survey maps are available without paying several arms and legs for it. The case for acquiring GIS would be unanswerable then. Mike Mike Shaw City Archaeologist Wolverhampton City Council Civic Centre Wolverhampton WV1 1RP e-mail [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Tel: 01902 555493 From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf Of Paul Cripps Sent: 16 January 2012 13:05 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Digital data from archaeological contractors Moves towards such a transfer mechanism would be very welcome I imagine and here at Wessex we are very much working towards this in specific areas in conjunction with the ADS. We often supply GIS, CAD and/or tabular data to HER/SMRs when requested. We can also assist with backlogs by undertaking enhancement projects using our own (or other) digital/paper based data to create the necessary Monument/Event/Source records directly into HER/SMRs. More generally speaking, the overall amount of time spent within the sector simply handling data by a) contractors dealing with incoming HER/SMR data (which is often supplied in less than helpful formats, even if digital; eg word/pdf reports and pdf maps) combined with b) the amount of time then spent reincorporating resultant data (supplied as paper or word/pdf reports and maps) back into the HER/SMR is all time/money that could be far better spent, in my opinion. That is not to say there isn't valuable intellectual work there associated with this, I am focussing here purely on the currently necessary mechanical tasks of data handling which should be streamlined. It would be great if digital handover could be appropriately specified and made part of requirements as this would push the issue forward; as Sylvina says, many contractors are not in a position to do this (for whatever reason) so those of us who are would find this most helpful in terms of justifying why we should do this and any associated additional costs (of which there would undoubtedly be some to begin with, but if the overall picture is looked at, digital transfer to/from HER/SMRs would surely bring a cost saving; ie in the short term, until everyone is geared up to working this way, it might take a bit longer to supply data at each end but costs associated with receiving it should be greatly reduced, resulting in a net overall gain for both ends). I would therefore argue digital handover to HER/SMRs would need to be allied with some agreement on nature of data supply (and costs!) from HER/SMRs too, so that we as contractors get some benefits also otherwise it would just mean additional costs this end, not good when in the current climate we need to keep our costs to a minimum. Quid pro quo and all that. From this contractors point of view, use of GIS formats for receiving spatial data and eg MidasXML for the full records makes our life much easier and those HER/SMRs who can supply such data (preferably without inflated costs for the privilege) help us enormously. Something similar in reverse must be achievable, as was being pushed up in Scotland. With technological advances such as secure remote access, we could even as a matter of course, agree to create records into the HER/SMR system for the HER/SMR teams to validate. And going the other way, we could (theoretically) eg leverage the Heritage Gateway to supply data live into our GIS. Now that really would be an impressively efficient round trip, allowing us to receive the most up to date data without the need for onerous and time consuming data supply mechanisms at the HER/SMR end or similar incoming data mechanisms this end (freeing up staff time at both ends for other tasks), reduce timescales for us being able to rapidly turn around projects (as we could just crack on with doing the archaeology rather than handling data) and finally feed the results straight back in the HER/SMR for validation (freeing up staff time at the HER/SMR relating to rekeying/redigitising from paper or pdf submissions). I would value your thoughts on such a framework NB One final point: Some organisations at both ends are simply not currently geared up for digital data, both contractors and HER/SMRs, preferring instead to use paper or digital paper (ie pdf or word documents) for transfer. Some carrots and sticks would need to be applied here. Hope this helps! Kind regards, Paul Paul Cripps Geomatics Manager Wessex Archaeology Portway House, Old Sarum Park, Salisbury, SP4 6EB Mob: +44 7765 226746 Tel: +44 1722 326867 [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> http://www.wessexarch.co.uk/geomatics ________________________________ From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf Of Sylvina Tilbury Sent: 13 January 2012 16:20 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Digital data from archaeological contractors Thanks Hugh. That is some comfort and yes that's the only way I can possibly handle it. Not that I am handling it exactly - I'm drowning! <resolutely not thinking about the backlog) -----Original Message----- From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf Of Winfield, Hugh Sent: 13 January 2012 16:13 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Digital data from archaeological contractors Sylvina, If it's any comfort, I think most of us would be asking the same thing if we had to deal with that many sites coming in! I have just under 2000 HER entries in total (0.1 entries per hectare, not including Maritime sites) spread over 23 "parishes". Although this number of records could be significantly increased with data enhancement for the likes of DMV's and SMV's, some of which are represented by single records, its never going to get close to the realms of 1000 records per year. Hugh Hugh Winfield Archaeologist and Historic Environment Record Officer Development Management Origin One, Origin Way Europarc, Grimsby North East Lincolnshire DN37 9TZ Tel: (01472) 32 3586 Fax: (01472) 32 4216 Access maps of the Archaeological and Historic sites, buildings and monuments in North East Lincolnshire here: http://isharemaps.nelincs.gov.uk/mynelc.aspx ________________________________ From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf Of Sylvina Tilbury Sent: 13 January 2012 15:47 To: Winfield, Hugh Subject: Re: Digital data from archaeological contractors OK thanks Emma. I'm getting the message that we're definitely swimming against the tide here, which helps explain some of the problems we are having. However when it works it really does work and some of our local contractors are being brilliant and supplying really good quality information that is a (relative) breeze to incorporate into the HER. We need to somehow get over the message that we are not asking for massive digital archives for the sake of it, but that there is a purpose for requesting the data in that form (ie they will have a reasonably up to date HER when they next come to do a search). Thanks everyone. I shall keep working on them! -----Original Message----- From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf Of Hancox, Emma (Archaeology) Sent: 13 January 2012 15:32 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Digital data from archaeological contractors Sylvina, We also require a digital PDF copy of reports to be submitted to the HER and we have scanned all our old grey literature (most of which is online thanks to contractors giving permission). We haven't required any other digital data to be submitted, but some contractors do send us geophysical data, photographic archives etc. Regards, Emma Emma Hancox Historic Environment Policy and Advisory Manager Worcestershire Archive and Archaeology Service Woodbury, Henwick Grove, University of Worcester WR2 6AJ Telephone: 01905 855474. Website: www.worcestershire.gov.uk/archaeology WAAS is moving to The Hive. The Hive opens Summer 2012 www.wlhc.org.uk<http://www.wlhc.org.uk> and will bring together a fully integrated public and University library, The Worcestershire Archive and Archaeology Service and Worcestershire Hub Customer Service Centre. The HER and Advisory Sections of WAAS will be closed to the general public from March 5th until Summer 2012 while we move to the new premises. During this period we will continue to provide advice and information via email and telephone as normal. Where available, sources referenced in Briefs and HER Searches will be emailed on request. It will not be possible to visit the HER or our library. From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf Of Broomfield, Rachel (DEVELOPMENT & REGENERATION) Sent: 13 January 2012 14:56 To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Digital data from archaeological contractors Afternoon Sylvina from sunny Devon We now stipulate that we must be supplied with a hard coy of the report and a .pdf version (either emailed or on disc). We also request that they submit the report to OASIS. Although we are not actively working on our HER at present due to budgetary restraints, in the long term we will simply link these .pdf's of reports to the site's in question (well that's then plan anyway). So far we haven't had too many problems with it, and we are scanning all our grey literature at present too. Does that help at all? Rachel Rachel Broomfield Historic Environment Officer (Tuesday, Wednesday & Friday) Development Management Planning Services Plymouth City Council Floor 9 Civic Centre Plymouth PL1 2AA T: (01752) 305433 / 304397 E: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> www.plymouth.gov.uk/planning<http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/planning> If you are thinking of submitting a planning application, speak with our officers about the Development Enquiry Service. You'll receive excellent pre-application advice which will often save you time and money before making your final planning application: http://www.plymouth.gov.uk/homepage/environmentandplanning/planning/makingaplanningapp/developmentenquiry.htm ________________________________ From: Issues related to Historic Environment Records [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf Of Sylvina Tilbury Sent: Friday, January 13, 2012 2:48 PM To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> Subject: Digital data from archaeological contractors Hello everyone A Friday afternoon question for you, as I sit here quietly tearing my hair out. To what extent do other archaeology services/HERs require archaeological contractors to supply them with digital data? A couple of years back we revised our reporting standards for developer-funded work to include an overt requirement not only for digital copies of reports, but also shapefiles of event and site extents, digital site gazetteers, digital photos and photographic registers. This allows us to streamline the process of getting information into the HER - crucial given our resource limitations - and prevents duplication and double keying of information. It seems plain to us that reporting needs to move with the times and that the supply of digital information is something that should be standard in this day and age. However two years on I am still banging my head against a brick wall with many archaeological contractors who seem to have difficulty understanding even the basics of GIS or appreciating the benefits of supplying data to us digitally. I'm now wondering if we really are the only HER in the country with these types of requirements - surely not? Thoughts? What do others do? Thanks Sylvina Sylvina Tilbury | HER Officer | Historic Environment Team Planning & Development Service | Highland Council |Glenurquhart Road | Inverness | IV3 5NX T: 01463 702503 | F: 01463 702298 | http://her.highland.gov.uk<http://her.highland.gov.uk/> You can now send us photos via our Flickr group: www.flickr.com/groups/her<http://www.flickr.com/groups/her> Facebook: www.facebook.com/HighlandHER<http://www.facebook.com/HighlandHER> Twitter: www.twitter.com/Highland_HER<http://www.twitter.com/Highland_HER> Unless related to the business of the Highland Council, the views or opinions expressed within this e-mail are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect those of The Highland Council, or associated bodies, nor does this e-mail form part of any contract unless so stated. 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Mura h-eil na beachdan a tha air an cur an cèill sa phost-d seo a' buntainn ri gnothachas Chomhairle na Gàidhealtachd, 's ann leis an neach fhèin a chuir air falbh e a tha iad, is chan eil iad an-còmhnaidh a' riochdachadh beachdan na Comhairle, no buidhnean buntainneach, agus chan eil am post-d seo na phàirt de chunnradh sam bith mura h-eil sin air innse. Wessex Archaeology Ltd is a company limited by guarantee registered in England, company number 1712772 and VAT number 631943833. It is also a Charity registered in England and Wales, number 287786; and in Scotland, Scottish Charity number SC042630. Our registered office is at Portway House, Old Sarum Park, Salisbury, Wilts SP4 6EB. If you have received this message in error, please send it back to us, and immediately and permanently delete it. 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