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There are many parallels between Bacchus (Dionysus) and Jesus, especially in that Dionysus suffers wounding at the hands of the Titans, descends to the Underworld, rises to immortality, and establishes a universal cult. I don't know whether this connection applies to Spenser's Book V of FQ, but these are repeated motifs that are found in the Osiris myth also as some have mentioned. Best, Salwa Salwa Khoddam, Ph.D. Professor of English Emerita Oklahoma City University 2501 N. Blackwelder OKC, OK 73106 Phone: 405-208-5127 email: [log in to unmask] ________________________________________ From: Sidney-Spenser Discussion List [[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom Bishop (ARTS ENG) [[log in to unmask]] Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 10:00 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: SIDNEY-SPENSER: Bacchus in Book V of _FQ_ Bacchus' connection with Osiris is also presented in the middle lines of Tibullus 1.7, the poem for Mesalla's birthday, possibly in an attempt to rehabilitate Egyptian cult after the disrepute it had been thrust into during and after the last civil war. Tom On 14/11/11 11:33 AM, "James C. Nohrnberg" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >I would suppose that the presence of Bacchus in Spenser's >Book V is the result of a kind of syncretism, depending on >the idea that Bacchus was or meant the sun and, >furthermore, was another name for Osiris (after Herodotus, >Hist. II.42). A small chunk of Osiris lore therefore ends >up in Comes'/Conti's extended article about Bacchus (Myth. >V.13). The gates of Bacchus in the East correspond to >those of Hercules in the West, and these make both figures >conquerers or empire-builders. Conquest, for better or >worse, is associated with Justice in Book V, because the >conquerer is identified as a bringer of civilization (and >agricultural arts) and a beneficiary of humankind. The >solar & Huerculean course of justice through a zodiac of >episodes provides one possible key to the legend & career >of Artegall, this paradigm starting from the Aquarian >canto (FQ IV.xi) following the one in which we last hear >of Scudamour (IV.x) and extending to at least the Libra >canto in which Mercilla renders justice to Duessa (V.x). > In Lucianıs True History (I.7) the designated limits of >Dionysusı east and Herculesı west curiously met in the >same place. Herculesı and Dionysus' footprint coincide, >in that Lucianıs traveler and mock-historian found at >ancient journeyingıs limits. > > >On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 15:59:22 -0500 > Scott Lucas <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> Dear list members, >> >> I just finished teaching Book 5 of the *Faerie Queene* a >>little while >> ago, and I have had a question lingering with me ever >>since we began that >> book that I hope someone can answer. At the opening of >>canto 1, Spenser >> recounts how vice was combatted in ancient times by >>"some of the vertuous >> race" who heroically opposed unrighteousness. The very >>first of these >> virtuous figures, according to Spenser, was the god >>Bacchus, who, coming to >> the eastern world, "wrong repressed, and establisht >>right,/ Which lawlesse >> men had formerly fordonne./ There Iustice first her >>princely rule begonne" >> (V.i.1-2). >> >> Bacchus seems to me a very strange figure to laud as a >>champion of "right," >> lawfulness, and justice, since I tend to think of him as >>a god of frenzy, >> chaos, and release from moral restraint. Spenser's >>treatment of the wine >> god here seems even stranger when one notes that Spenser >>apparently >> associates Bacchus with sin rather than righteousness in >>Book 1, when he >> has Gluttony in the House of Pride's parade of sins >>"right fitly" dressed >> in "greene vine leaues," suggesting either Bacchus' >>wine-grape leaves or >> his ivy (I had thought the former, but A.C. Hamilton in >>his edition glosses >> I.iv.22, line 1, as a reference to Bacchus' sacred ivy). >> >> Hamilton, in his edition of *FQ*, suggests that Spenser >>got the idea of >> Bacchus bringing order and justice to the east from a >>Renaissance >> mythographer such as Comes/Conti. Does anyone know what >>Comes' logic >> behind presenting Bacchus as a figure of justice and a >>defender of virtue >> might have been, and whether there are any classical >>precedents for this >> view? In Ovid's *Metamorphoses*, Bacchus certainly >>takes care of >> belligerent types such as his would-be kidnappers and >>Pentheus, but these >> seem actions done against those who defy him personally >>and not deeds done >> for the sake of the establishment of justice, as Spenser >>suggests. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Scott >> >> >> >> >> >> Scott C. Lucas >> >> Professor of English >> >> The Citadel, the Military College of South Carolina >> >> Charleston, SC 29409 >> >> >> >> (843) 953-5133 >> >> [log in to unmask] > >[log in to unmask] >James Nohrnberg >Dept. of English, Bryan Hall 219 >Univ. of Virginia >P.O Box 400121 >Charlottesville, VA 22904-4121