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If there is a "large rural" one can be assured its exploited - this is capitalism. Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 07:55:17 -0400 From: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Is there a large hidden rural exploited underclass? To: [log in to unmask] To clarify, I have covered some 4,000 miles on Google Streetview, for an unrelated research project - in the UK and some other EU countries. I appreciate the comments from e.g. Sweden, where I have not covered. If listmembers have observational experience of the USA, Costa Rica, Canada, etc I would very meuch appreciate constructive informative comments re these areas too. And yes, to reiterate, I am looking so far only at the farm-caravan phenomena, not a far wider issue of rural deprivation in e.g. UK former coal mining areas, peripheral deprived estates in small towns / villages, farmer impoverishment in the face of UK supermarket downwards price pressure, low wages + high house prices in UK tourist areas such as Cornwall, dependence on higher-priced small shops due to supermarket remoteness, or any other of the numerous aspects of rural deprivation that exist in the UK, and elsewhere. I am simply looking at a phenomenon, which in my humble opinion / limited observatiuons, seems to have increased recently. Also, obviously, Google Streetview would not be the final observational tool to test any hypothesis here - its only an attempt to start constructive comment here - I can suggest a number of Uk databases for deeper, e.g. doctoral, research here. But as said, i am simply inviting general otehr observations. My thanks to those who have contributed from other countries. Dr Hillary Shaw School of Business, Management and Marketing Harper Adams University College Newport Shropshire TF10 8NB -----Original Message----- From: Annita Lucchesi <[log in to unmask]> To: hillshaw <[log in to unmask]> CC: crit-geog-forum <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thu, 3 Nov 2011 11:25 Subject: Re: Is there a large hidden rural exploited underclass? Dr. Shaw--I find it disappointing that as a university professor and academic, your only response to my critique is a rather childish attempt to belittle my claims via insult...when you are interested in a respectful, productive exchange of ideas let me know and we'll continue this discussion. I appreciate John's recent post explicating the situation in the UK--it certainly sheds light on the localized phenomenon Dr. Shaw described. However, my issue with Dr. Shaw's post was not so much in actual specifics, but the broader ways in which the email was framed and written. I believe that my claims still stand. Moreover, my geographic location is hardly a way of discrediting them. That said, if Dr. Shaw insists it will make a difference: I have lived in rural areas of the United States, Costa Rica, Italy, and Barbados. I have traveled extensively through rural areas of Central America, Canada, and China. This evidently lends a different perspective than that which is gained from a casual pan through Google Streetview. Dr. Shaw: forgive me for assuming that when you titled your email "is there a large hidden rural exploited underclass?" you were referencing impoverished, exploited peoples of rural areas. I now understand that you meant that the "large hidden rural exploited underclass" is not inclusive of the large hidden rural exploited underclass who do not live in caravans. Again: what a privilege to be able to erase the experiences of those which do not fit within your biased imaginations! Annita Lucchesi On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 6:05 AM, <[log in to unmask]> wrote: To further add to Lucchesi's comments, The caravan proliferation IS a recent phenomenon, in the UK anyway.,at least from my observations - I welcome other observations re this elsewhere in the world. Lucchesi doe not tell us which region they are from, so I cannot say what they might have observed. It is of course rather facile to say that 'rural poor / worker exploitation is ongoing' - I guess we all knew that - the subject was its more recent form, caravan accommodation. I can only guess that either Lucchesi does not believe in empirical observation as a basis for starting theoretical analysis, or is rather poor at reading skills. Lucchesi, should you wish to book a session on the retail-research xection of my Retail VConsumer module, you are welocme to attend as visiting student in weeks 12,13 room M39 Harper Adams. Hello all, I'm a recent addition to this forum, and have for the most part enjoyed reading the contributions made. That said, I felt it necessary to problematize Hillary Shaw's most recent email regarding peoples residing in informal housing in rural areas. As a current Geography student focused on rural geographies of power and violence, there are a number of points I would like to make: First, the rhetoric of the post casts rural poor as a sudden and recent upcropping. This is factually incorrect. That Dr. Shaw would reference Marx is no surprise, but I am surprised that someone who references Marx is seemingly unaware of the fact that capitalism has not stopped exploiting the poor since Marx stopped writing. Rural or no--it is basic fact that the poor continue to be systematically exploited. The fact that Dr. Shaw is surprised to discover informal housing in the backwaters of his own country shows nothing but his own willful ignorance on the subject. Second, the sarcastic jokes regarding informal housing in a discussion of inequality reveals the author's total disregard for the exploited he references...what a privilege to be able to joke about homelessness and chronic poverty! Furthermore, the sensationalist rhetoric in which the post is written likens rural poverty to a kind of epidemic that seems to have randomly manifested. Describing rural poverty in this way is dehumanizing and unprofessional. Third, the post is written so as to make it seem that Dr. Shaw has recently discovered a subject of study imagined as both fantastical and trendy. Rural poverty is not a trending topic--it is a real, material, ongoing system of exploitation and violence. To describe it as anything less is to further dehumanize those living in these conditions. Fourth, there is a gross level of essentialism at work, on multiple levels. Not all rural poor squat in caravans. This may seem obvious, but writing about the rural poor as mysteriously-appearing caravans collapses localized hierarchies and propagates prejudiced stereotypes grounded in urban and wealthy ignorance. Additionally, Dr. Shaw's post lacks any contextualization regarding issues of citizenship, race, or history. Any nuanced understanding of geographies of rural exploitation must take issues such as these into account. It is my suggestion that those who are interested in studies of rural poverty and exploitation should venture away from the comfort of their desk, recognize that trawling Google Streetview is not an ethical method of ethnographic research, and discuss such topics of interest with those that actually live in these conditions--the rural poor themselves. Speaking for their plights while not attempting to dialog with them on their struggles is to further silence and oppress them. Best, Annita Lucchesi Dr Hillary Shaw School of Business, Management and Marketing Harper Adams University College Newport Shropshire TF10 8NB On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 6:15 PM, Hillary Shaw <[log in to unmask]> wrote: 'Drive' down almost any rural lane, using Google Streetview (with its camera some 3 metres off the ground, it will see a lot more than you could) and before long you will see a caravan or three in the corner of a field behind a hedge, or tucked away in a barn a few tens of metres off the road. And a few hundred metres down, another...and another. Some parts of the UK must have several tens per square kilometre, that's maybe 100,000 or more across the nation. Now it's possible that British farmers have suddenly developed a taste for caravan holidays (and so as to spare any embarrasment, park them not by their house but in a remoter part of their land), or are these being used as quasi-temporary housing for seasonal low-paid likely expolited workers? Such workers have no real address, so likely no NI record, no council records, no employment rights, holiday pay or sick pay, maybe no access to educational or health services the rest of us take for granted in the UK. It's less well known that Marx wrote a lot about 19c farm workers in Lincolnshire, he must have spent quite a lot of time observing this English county. Maybe we haven't moved on so much since then? Or am I misisng an opportunity selling 'Caravan Weekly' to the UK farming community? Dr Hillary Shaw School of Business, Management and Marketing Harper Adams University College Newport Shropshire TF10 8NB