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Donald –

 

If both patients were compared to the same group of controls in two different models each with 1 patient and N controls, then I'd do the following:

(a) convert your T-statistic to Z-score

(b) subtract the Z-scores

(c) convert to a p-value for significance testing

 

The reason that this works is that only the variance of the control group is used to determine the denominator of the T-tests since the variance of the patient is 0. Then the only difference in the contrasts is the numerator (e.g. patient1-control and patient2-control). If you subtract these two, then you get patient1-patient2. Since the denominator is the same, you can keep the denominator. Of course, all that requires more math and such, so the Z-score approach is easier.

 

Additionally, many studies that compare patients to controls using single cases report the Z-scores of the patients, so there is a history in the literature for using Z-scores.

 

Your approach may work, but I am slightly worried about the practice of reporting Z-scores in the literature that you mention. The point of the PDF I wrote (that Ben cites) is that people use Z-scores as Z-statistics, and thereby attach a p-value to a Z-score that may not be correct. A Z-score is simply a transform that subtracts the sample mean and divides by the sample standard deviation. However, this cannot be tested against a Z-distribution unless there are a large number of observations (ie in the limit of large df). The whole point of Students T is to adjust for the bias entailed in estimating the population mean and standard deviation from small samples.

 

So people who report Z-scores in papers when comparing small groups should not use Z>1.96 to imply p<.05. However, if you are talking about converting a T-statistic to a Z-statistic (not a Z-score, as you sometimes use below), that may be possible, but I am unsure whether the difference in Z-statistics for the 2 patients (vs same control group) can simply be given a p-value – but perhaps it can – hopefully someone else will comment. I guess it would correspond to constructing a T-statistic with the numerator being the difference in the 2 patient scores, and denominator as the standard error of mean of the controls alone, as you note (using an unpooled estimate of that error, in the terminology of the PDF cited above).

 

BW,R

 

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DR RICHARD HENSON    

Assistant Director for Neuroimaging
MRC Cognition & Brain Sciences Unit
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England

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From: SPM (Statistical Parametric Mapping) [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of MCLAREN, Donald
Sent: 11 October 2011 16:14
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [SPM] direct comparison of two subjects possible in spm?

 

Ben and Rik,

 

If both patients were compared to the same group of controls in two different models each with 1 patient and N controls, then I'd do the following:

(a) convert your T-statistic to Z-score

(b) subtract the Z-scores

(c) convert to a p-value for significance testing

 

The reason that this works is that only the variance of the control group is used to determine the denominator of the T-tests since the variance of the patient is 0. Then the only difference in the contrasts is the numerator (e.g. patient1-control and patient2-control). If you subtract these two, then you get patient1-patient2. Since the denominator is the same, you can keep the denominator. Of course, all that requires more math and such, so the Z-score approach is easier.

 

Additionally, many studies that compare patients to controls using single cases report the Z-scores of the patients, so there is a history in the literature for using Z-scores.

 

If you are concerned about not using the variance from the patient group, then I'd ask why only the variance for the control group was originally used.


Best Regards, Donald McLaren
=================
D.G. McLaren, Ph.D.
Postdoctoral Research Fellow, GRECC, Bedford VA
Research Fellow, Department of Neurology, Massachusetts General Hospital and
Harvard Medical School
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On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 5:02 AM, Ben Becker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Dear SPMers,

we have investigated the face-processing network in two lesion patients using a face-perception fMRI task (block-design). To examine differences between patients we have compared each patient with the same group of matched controls (using Rik Hensons `comparing a single patient versus a group of controls`approach).
Now the reviewers ask for a direct contrast between the two patients. My question: is it possible to directly compare two subjects using spm? Would a comparison on the first level between the patients lead to valid results?
Thanks in advance & best regards,

Ben