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Song for Exmle has always been a favourite verse for me; but, if you really are going to force your head up your ass, make sure I get a ticket to watch -- unless you mean a quadruped in which case I may report you L On Thu, October 27, 2011 12:19, cris cheek wrote: > indd Roger > > i'm being boring > > i'm saying, again, that poetry has a long history of performing on and > off the page > > and that in many cultures the page still does not pertain > > they are not mutually exclusive > > they support the same premise > > where there is not a page the poem in in the body, the mouth the air the > ear and the memory of the listener > > where there is a a page the poem is both on it and off it (one might say > that they take part in differing models of communication . one ritual > and the other transmission) > > sometimes when it is off the page (perhaps it is both indeed there is a > lot of that about ;=0) then it approaches other art forms . . > unsurprising . . song, for exmle, and monologue and drama and stand up and > live art et al > > > what i often hear and i was hearing it again but perhaps it was my fault > for mishearing it . is the sense that either is somehow somehow superior > > or more evolved or more sophisticated or more complex or more generally a > subject of disdain > > and as an old punk i am more inclined to force my head up my ass under > such circumstances > > > cris > > > > > On Oct 27, 2011, at 6:54 AM, Roger Day wrote: > > >> Oh, cris. Your Olympian view is so ... bracing. But what do you mean, >> 'non-western'? I don't understand ... I thought, like Dave, that the >> 'west' >> - whatever that is - still has some idea of multiple performances of a >> poem ... >> >> >> Didn't Tennyson do one of the first wax cylinder recordings? >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 7:37 AM, David Bircumshaw >> <[log in to unmask] >> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> cris cheek wrote on Tue, 25 Oct 2011 21:25:19 -0400 >>> >>> " . . but since it's clear that poetry has for several thousand >>> years been (in many cultures) integrally implicated in the deveopments >>> of performance, from early epic through the mead halls into >>> contemporary rap . the non-western acceptance that poetry is to be >>> enjoyed both through reading on the page and being explored off the >>> page >>> >>> what on earth is the problem here? >>> >>> point-scoring is as addled a past-time in respect of poetry on the >>> page as off the page" >>> >>> I agree, point-scoring poetry is an addled pastime, so in what >>> context would anyone want to 'quantify' 'quality' in poetry? Which was >>> the question asked. >>> >>> Other than that, I am interested in your version of literary history, >>> this one where say Tennyson or Dylan Thomas or Wordsworth rejected the >>> performing of poetry, as did the Elizabethan and Jacobean >>> playwrights, or the whole of Russian poetry, or Lorca, or Miguel >>> Hernandez, while that most literary and >>> textual poetic culture in China has presumably migrated across a >>> continent. >>> >>> best >>> >>> dave >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> David Joseph Bircumshaw >>> "The surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the >>> universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." - Calvin & Hobbes >>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet >>> http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk >>> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html >>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw >>> twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave >>> blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> > ----- UNFRAMED GRAPHICS by Lawrence Upton 42 pages; A5 paperback; colour cover Writers Forum 978 1 84254 277 4 wfuk.org.uk/blog ---- Lawrence Upton Dept of Music Goldsmiths, University of London