Corneilius:
Thank you. You've clearly given this a lot of thought, and I can see your
line of reasoning.
I would like to ask how you arguments relate to the debates mentioned
here
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/sep/11/childcare-parenting-neuroscience-nurture
- for example "they say the neuroscience backing claims of the
importance of parental connection in the early years has been hyped and
that social policy focusing on the parent-child bond is "a waste of
resources"?
Is the 'civilising process' can you explain more what you mean that there
are "influences in Society that apply this as a technique to embed
their control". I don't quite understand; some examples would be
good.
Cheers,
Mark
At 12:49 03/10/2011 +0100, you wrote:
Interesting points.
I would like to comment.
1. It's inaccurate the quote the 'human species' when it is the activity
of the few which is at the root of the issues we face. That activity
includes ALL those conditioning processes that we call 'civilising' :
Compulsion Schooling, Religioneering, the denial of the profound affects
Societal Trauma and Historical Trauma as much as it is the use of private
cars (the materials used to make are taken from habitats, and cause more
damage to the environment than the fuels they use.)
There are 370 million pre-literate peoples ('tribal') alive today
and the vast majority have been living in a sustainable and healthy
manner, just as their ancestors did for many, many tens of thousands of
years.... up to the point where 'civilisation' has invaded their lands
and undermined their cultures..... by 'civilising' them.....
2. I am 52 and I remember warm Octobers as a child...... be careful to
equate weather variations with the standard Climate Change based on
Fossil Fuels argument.... Weather patterns vary intensely all the
time.... and if anything it is the 'civilised' land use that is abusing
the natural patterns more than any other factor, because the 'civilised'
approach reduces bio-diversity which is the basis of biological
resilience.
3. I have carried out much research into the roots of violence and the
systemic disruption of natural empathic learning processes.
This much is clear.
I have outlined a process that is simple to comprehend. Call it the
'civilising process' ..... how to make citizens, subjects, subservient
populations from the Natural Child or the undermining of true
autonomy.....
in short : loss of self empathy leads to loss of empathy leads to sense
of disconnection leads to fear leads to the need to control leads to
violence.
in some basic detail:
The infants natural somato-sensory needs are not met, this is traumatic
and unexpected, and the infant has to 'cope' by ignoring his or her
feelings: this leads directly to a loss of self empathy, which leads to a
loss of empathy for others. Of course children's sensitivity and
constitutions are massively variable so some survive with some empathy
intact.....
Nonetheless, if this process occurs to the majority, then that lack of
empathy becomes part of the societal norm.
That lack of empathy leads to a lack of felt connection, and for an
infant that is a disconnection from that which nurtures in the natural
sense..... this leads directly to fear and that fear drives the urge to
over-control. ANY control imposed on any natural organism will generate
resistance, and this is where violence enters into the picture.
When any population endures a trauma, they will also have to cope, (by
suppressing feelings, emotions and memories) and if they cannot resolve
it will stay in the coping mode. Any societal structure they build will
have those elements of fear and control built into them.
EG: The Irish and the 'Famine' and the subsequent creation of the Irish
State which systematically abused many hundreds of thousands of children
over an 80 year period, a crime which is still being masked....
EG: the utter devastation of Aboriginal communities over generations,
including the forced removal of children in the 20th Century, which has
resulted in widespread 'self-medication' - family breakdown, addiction
and the attendant abuse - the Australian Government and Media BLAME
the Aboriginals for this, rather than put their hands up and accept that
it's the result of their policies.
EG: the Vatican's 'response' to the evidence of living witnesses of
abuse.....
This is the modern Institutional World, as it was the ancient
'civilisations' - Inca, Aztec, Hindi, etc etc.
Most Institutional Religions utilise processes that disrupt the natural
mother-child bonding. The KNOW what they are doing. They have studied
this for many thousands of years....
James Prescott, Alice Miller, Bowlby and others have mapped out apsects
of this.
What we HAVE to recognise is that there are influences in Society that
apply this as a technique to embed their control. This is very difficult
for most to face up to. Because it means we have to return to ruthless
100% honesty to even start to undo the damage.
Nonetheless, it's absolutely essential that we do.
Kindest regards
Corneilius
www.dwylcorneilius.blogspot.com
"do what you love it's your gift to the universe!"
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From: Torsten Mark Kowal
<[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, 3 October 2011, 11:19
Subject: Psycho-socio maturity and facing climate change
By mistake I sent an incomplete message (must have been the heat!): so
here goes below what I meant to say:
Forumers:
This list is full of mature people. I mean that as a compliment. Of
course, and why wouldn't being called "mature" be
complimentary?
We live in very vexing times. Thinking outside my personal space, almost
nothing on the larger scales seems to be getting better.
Major problems for our species seem to be stacking up now; and it is
patently obvious that our responses at the species and planetary level
are miserable.
I am grateful to the mature people I've met through CRISIS forum, as
without maybe even they're knowing it, this network serves our created
purpose, of lending voice to the insights of isolated people, anywhere in
all accessible physical and social spaces, without prejudice. I could
mention so many of all the efforts that are noted, thoughts feeding into
mine.
Going through the alphabet, let's say Alastair McIntosh whose oversight
and wisdom can't be under-estimated. Or, as you drop through your
Crisis-Forum mailbox, any number of people (.....going down through the
alphabet, Tom Barker, Bob Ward, Brian Orr, Chris Shaw and Chris Keene,
Oliver Tickell .....and lately the serious efforts of John Nissen).
We all of us appear to know what is going on, to the extent that even
this recent spell of very-provoking and thoroughly weird weather hasn't
evinced a single comment.
We know that the human species isn't dealing with all this trouble very
well; in fact we are barely registering the climate problem, in any way
that is physically significant.
Once we "get it" that the wacky weather does keep coming, we
can see the perturbations this causes in oneself, and others who are
well-informed.
But what about the rest of us, here in the industrialised economies, who
could perhaps show with their hands and voices that they'd like this
problem solved at source?
Seems to me, that most of "them" don't seem to get it very
much. Yesterday's The Observer made me step back in surprise when,
passing via page 5 with the photos of Brighton's October beaches, I
reached the double-page spread (unfortunately not on-line) titled
"How herding, hunting and keeping pets was key to human
success". This carries photos of Peruvian sheep, a girl with a
cat and foxes with hounds, and reports on the publication of a book
"The Animal Connection", summarised here
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100720123639.htm, here
http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com/2011/05/animal-connection.html
and available here -
http://pennstate.academia.edu/PatShipman/Papers/320573/The_Animal_Connection_and_Human_Evolution
Why is this a bit of a surprise? Well to my little mind, why do the
thoughts of an anthropologist from Pennsylvania Uni merit highlighting
for the Observer's readership?
Would the Editor have thought that we didn't know? I mean, it is
just a bit obvious that humans and other animals are co-dependent.
But this is a world where we have paradigms that can make your jaw drop
to the floor, when a market trader shows his feelings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC19fEqR5bA, but luckily where real
science is also happening...
http://media.podcasts.ox.ac.uk/socanth/anthropology/gosler-what-scientists-believe.mp3
Now, towards the end of this heatwave, as I bought my Sunday paper in
my next door gas station, the man taking people's cards tells me that
everyone coming in says how nice it is that it's cool in his
chocolates-and-wine cubicle, but that not a single person makes a mention
of this weather as having to do with the wider altered climate. Rather,
he tells me, the petrol-purchasing-people are like busy bees, all just
out and about "making the most of it". Is it that our
industrialized relationship, with what we rely on around us, is so
disrupted that we lack the conceptual basis for making sense of things
like wacky weather?
Another thought is about our maturity and capacities as people when
looking at facts. So many of us seem to be afflicted by so many
syndromes, that maybe all that distress and turbulence is also getting in
the way of clarity in vision.
So I was wondering about: What makes people non-deniers of climate
change, and what things do people believe and do to better link us people
with the animals and all the rest of what's around? Surely the majority's
denial isn't a separate issue from the rest of our collective mental
healthiness.
So the question this email poses is about:
What are the indicators, at a personal and then at a societal level, of
the maturity and connectedness that enable evidence-based understanding
of what is going on?
Or in a similar vein: what did we let industrialized society do to our
wiring, so that most of us can't see what is what?
Kindest regards,
Mark Kowal