Corneilius:
Thank you. You've clearly given this a lot of thought, and I can see your line of reasoning.
I would like to ask how you arguments relate to the debates mentioned here http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/sep/11/childcare-parenting-neuroscience-nurture - for example "they say the neuroscience backing claims of the importance of parental connection in the early years has been hyped and that social policy focusing on the parent-child bond is "a waste of resources"?
Is the 'civilising process' can you explain more what you mean that there are "influences in Society that apply this as a technique to embed their control". I don't quite understand; some examples would be good.
Cheers,
Mark
At 12:49 03/10/2011 +0100, you wrote:
>Interesting points.
>
>I would like to comment.
>
>1. It's inaccurate the quote the 'human species' when it is the activity of the few which is at the root of the issues we face. That activity includes ALL those conditioning processes that we call 'civilising' : Compulsion Schooling, Religioneering, the denial of the profound affects Societal Trauma and Historical Trauma as much as it is the use of private cars (the materials used to make are taken from habitats, and cause more damage to the environment than the fuels they use.)
>
>There are 370 million pre-literate peoples ('tribal') alive today and the vast majority have been living in a sustainable and healthy manner, just as their ancestors did for many, many tens of thousands of years.... up to the point where 'civilisation' has invaded their lands and undermined their cultures..... by 'civilising' them.....
>
>2. I am 52 and I remember warm Octobers as a child...... be careful to equate weather variations with the standard Climate Change based on Fossil Fuels argument.... Weather patterns vary intensely all the time.... and if anything it is the 'civilised' land use that is abusing the natural patterns more than any other factor, because the 'civilised' approach reduces bio-diversity which is the basis of biological resilience.
>
>3. I have carried out much research into the roots of violence and the systemic disruption of natural empathic learning processes.
>
>This much is clear.
>
>I have outlined a process that is simple to comprehend. Call it the 'civilising process' ..... how to make citizens, subjects, subservient populations from the Natural Child or the undermining of true autonomy.....
>
>in short : loss of self empathy leads to loss of empathy leads to sense of disconnection leads to fear leads to the need to control leads to violence.
>
>in some basic detail:
>
>The infants natural somato-sensory needs are not met, this is traumatic and unexpected, and the infant has to 'cope' by ignoring his or her feelings: this leads directly to a loss of self empathy, which leads to a loss of empathy for others. Of course children's sensitivity and constitutions are massively variable so some survive with some empathy intact.....
>
>Nonetheless, if this process occurs to the majority, then that lack of empathy becomes part of the societal norm.
>
>That lack of empathy leads to a lack of felt connection, and for an infant that is a disconnection from that which nurtures in the natural sense..... this leads directly to fear and that fear drives the urge to over-control. ANY control imposed on any natural organism will generate resistance, and this is where violence enters into the picture.
>
>When any population endures a trauma, they will also have to cope, (by suppressing feelings, emotions and memories) and if they cannot resolve it will stay in the coping mode. Any societal structure they build will have those elements of fear and control built into them.
>
>EG: The Irish and the 'Famine' and the subsequent creation of the Irish State which systematically abused many hundreds of thousands of children over an 80 year period, a crime which is still being masked....
>
>EG: the utter devastation of Aboriginal communities over generations, including the forced removal of children in the 20th Century, which has resulted in widespread 'self-medication' - family breakdown, addiction and the attendant abuse - the Australian Government and Media BLAME the Aboriginals for this, rather than put their hands up and accept that it's the result of their policies.
>
>EG: the Vatican's 'response' to the evidence of living witnesses of abuse.....
>
>This is the modern Institutional World, as it was the ancient 'civilisations' - Inca, Aztec, Hindi, etc etc.
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>Most Institutional Religions utilise processes that disrupt the natural mother-child bonding. The KNOW what they are doing. They have studied this for many thousands of years....
>
>James Prescott, Alice Miller, Bowlby and others have mapped out apsects of this.
>
>What we HAVE to recognise is that there are influences in Society that apply this as a technique to embed their control. This is very difficult for most to face up to. Because it means we have to return to ruthless 100% honesty to even start to undo the damage.
>
>Nonetheless, it's absolutely essential that we do.
>
>Kindest regards
>
>Corneilius
>
>
>www.dwylcorneilius.blogspot.com
>
>
>"do what you love it's your gift to the universe!"
>
>
>note : if you do not wish to receive further emails from [log in to unmask] please reply with blank email and "remove me" in the subject field.
>
>From: Torsten Mark Kowal <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Sent: Monday, 3 October 2011, 11:19
>Subject: Psycho-socio maturity and facing climate change
>
>By mistake I sent an incomplete message (must have been the heat!): so here goes below what I meant to say:
>
>Forumers:
>
>This list is full of mature people. I mean that as a compliment. Of course, and why wouldn't being called "mature" be complimentary?
>
>We live in very vexing times. Thinking outside my personal space, almost nothing on the larger scales seems to be getting better.
>
>Major problems for our species seem to be stacking up now; and it is patently obvious that our responses at the species and planetary level are miserable.
>
>I am grateful to the mature people I've met through CRISIS forum, as without maybe even they're knowing it, this network serves our created purpose, of lending voice to the insights of isolated people, anywhere in all accessible physical and social spaces, without prejudice. I could mention so many of all the efforts that are noted, thoughts feeding into mine.
>
>Going through the alphabet, let's say Alastair McIntosh whose oversight and wisdom can't be under-estimated. Or, as you drop through your Crisis-Forum mailbox, any number of people (.....going down through the alphabet, Tom Barker, Bob Ward, Brian Orr, Chris Shaw and Chris Keene, Oliver Tickell .....and lately the serious efforts of John Nissen). We all of us appear to know what is going on, to the extent that even this recent spell of very-provoking and thoroughly weird weather hasn't evinced a single comment.
>
>We know that the human species isn't dealing with all this trouble very well; in fact we are barely registering the climate problem, in any way that is physically significant.
>
>Once we "get it" that the wacky weather does keep coming, we can see the perturbations this causes in oneself, and others who are well-informed.
>
>But what about the rest of us, here in the industrialised economies, who could perhaps show with their hands and voices that they'd like this problem solved at source?
>
>Seems to me, that most of "them" don't seem to get it very much. Yesterday's The Observer made me step back in surprise when, passing via page 5 with the photos of Brighton's October beaches, I reached the double-page spread (unfortunately not on-line) titled "How herding, hunting and keeping pets was key to human success". This carries photos of Peruvian sheep, a girl with a cat and foxes with hounds, and reports on the publication of a book "The Animal Connection", summarised here <http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100720123639.htm>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100720123639.htm, here <http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com/2011/05/animal-connection.html>http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com/2011/05/animal-connection.html and available here - <http://pennstate.academia.edu/PatShipman/Papers/320573/The_Animal_Connection_and_Human_Evolution>http://pennstate.academia.edu/PatShipman/Papers/320573/The_Animal_Connection_and_Human_Evolution
>
>Why is this a bit of a surprise? Well to my little mind, why do the thoughts of an anthropologist from Pennsylvania Uni merit highlighting for the Observer's readership?
>
>Would the Editor have thought that we didn't know? I mean, it is just a bit obvious that humans and other animals are co-dependent.
>
>But this is a world where we have paradigms that can make your jaw drop to the floor, when a market trader shows his feelings <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC19fEqR5bA>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC19fEqR5bA, but luckily where real science is also happening... <http://media.podcasts.ox.ac.uk/socanth/anthropology/gosler-what-scientists-believe.mp3>http://media.podcasts.ox.ac.uk/socanth/anthropology/gosler-what-scientists-believe.mp3
>
>Now, towards the end of this heatwave, as I bought my Sunday paper in my next door gas station, the man taking people's cards tells me that everyone coming in says how nice it is that it's cool in his chocolates-and-wine cubicle, but that not a single person makes a mention of this weather as having to do with the wider altered climate. Rather, he tells me, the petrol-purchasing-people are like busy bees, all just out and about "making the most of it". Is it that our industrialized relationship, with what we rely on around us, is so disrupted that we lack the conceptual basis for making sense of things like wacky weather?
>
>Another thought is about our maturity and capacities as people when looking at facts. So many of us seem to be afflicted by so many syndromes, that maybe all that distress and turbulence is also getting in the way of clarity in vision.
>
>So I was wondering about: What makes people non-deniers of climate change, and what things do people believe and do to better link us people with the animals and all the rest of what's around? Surely the majority's denial isn't a separate issue from the rest of our collective mental healthiness.
>
>So the question this email poses is about:
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>What are the indicators, at a personal and then at a societal level, of the maturity and connectedness that enable evidence-based understanding of what is going on?
>
>Or in a similar vein: what did we let industrialized society do to our wiring, so that most of us can't see what is what?
>
>Kindest regards,
>
>Mark Kowal
>
