Hi

Angie, I think that when people tell their students not to think about the hand, often what they mean is to direct attention away from the paper, to just trust that the hand knows what it's doing. Worrying too much about the hand can be stifling. Polanyi gives the example of "by concentrating on his fingers, a pianist can temporarily paralyse his movement". Trouble is, by mentioning the hand at all, this can lead us to being aware of it. Like saying 'don't look down'.

I think this instruction also has to do with trying to dissuade students from making premature evaluations (need to think of a better term for that). Worrying too much about the line as it is being drawn, rather than simply concentrating on feeling the line and postponing reviewing it till after it is drawn.

In short, I think you and Dan are actually not disagreeing. The hand can be involved in seeing, but being too aware of the hand, thinking of it as separate from the eye, or worrying about what it is doing, can be an obstacle for many students.

I think this again comes back to terminology. We hope students know what we mean when we say these things, but their interpretations are often very different. The Bridget Riley quote is lovely though I will use it! It is similar to when Nicolaides describes the feeling that the end of your pencil is touching what you are drawing. I am coming to realise more and more that learning is not so much about what is actually going on, but what it feels like.

Best

Michelle


Hi

I think that we are missing a trick.
I believe that drawing is NOT mainly about the eye - it is about the hand and eye working very closely together in a unique way, forging a special connection, and learning to communicate and cooperate. From my studies and practice I think that the hand perceives in a way the eye cannot. So they work together, in time and space, playing to their strengths - an example is that while the eye is susceptible to visual illusions, whereas the hand is less so, so if the hand behaves more like an eye in some cases it can see more / better than the eye. By an iterative trial and error process the eye and hand teach one another. As Bridget Riley said, you come to 'trust the eye at the end of your pencil'.

(I am going to say more about this at the DRN conference at our workshop on drawing, cognition and education).

Angie Brew



On 19 Sep 2011, at 00:00, DRAWING-RESEARCH automatic digest system wrote:

> There are 2 messages totaling 777 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>  1. Divergent drawing exercises (2)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sun, 18 Sep 2011 08:40:24 +0100
> From:    Dan Roach <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Divergent drawing exercises
>
> Hi everyone.
>
> Peter, I'd completely forgotten about this extract  thanks for bringing it
> to my attention again.
>
> I think I'd like to instil in the students that drawing is done with the eye
> and, if possible, to prompt them to consider the hand more as a mechanical
> device for executing the drawing. The knowing comes through looking, the
> looking forming part of the drawing. This is something that some of my
> colleagues and I were discussing last week and if I can get the undergrads
> to even consider this when making work, I think I'll have achieved
> something.
>
> The other thing that I'm going to factor in (and forgive me if someone else
> has already posted this) is to set up in the lecture theatre and play them
> some films (La Jetee, The Lives of Others, The Spirit of the Beehive etc,
> etc) and have them make at least 100 drawings through the films duration;
> explaining that representation isn't the goal harvesting visual research is.
>
> Dan
>
> From:  "McBurney, Peter" <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-To:  The UK drawing research network mailing list
> <[log in to unmask]>
> Date:  Sat, 17 Sep 2011 14:46:08 +0100
> To:  <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject:  Re: Divergent drawing exercises
>
> Lucy¹s email regarding trace reminded me of John Berger¹s discussion of the
> differences between western drawing and Chinese calligraphy in terms of the
> relative spatial positions of artist, object (or life model), and drawing.
>
>
>
> -- Peter
> ------------------
> ³Where are we, during the act of drawing, in spirit?  Where are you at such
> moments  moments which add up to so many, one might think of them as
> another life-time?    Each pictorial tradition offers a different answer to
> this query.  For instance, the European tradition, since the Renaissance,
> places the model over there, the draughtsman here, and the paper somewhere
> in between, within arms reach of the draughtsman, who observes the model and
> notes down what he has observed on the paper in front of him.   The Chinese
> tradition arranges things differently.  Calligraphy, the trace of things, is
> behind the model and the draughtsman has to search for it, looking through
> the model.   On his paper he then repeats the gestures he has seen
> calligraphically.  For the Paleolithic shaman, drawing inside a cave, it was
> different again.  The model and the drawing surface were in the same place,
> calling to the draughtsman to come and meet them, and then trace, with his
> hand on the rock, their presence.²
> p. 123 of John Berger [2005]:  Berger on Drawing.  Edited by Jim Savage.
> Aghabullogue, Co. Cork, Eire:  Occasional Press.
> ------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> From: The UK drawing research network mailing list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of lucy ward
> Sent: 17 September 2011 12:35
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] Divergent drawing exercises
>
>
> Hello there,
>
>
>
> I would like to add a suggestion to this thread and then ask for suggestions
> in return.
>
>
>
> I am planning a workshop on the idea of the trace. I mean the trace in the
> sense of tracing movement, action or time. Or that drawing might be the
> leaving of a trace.
>
> So far, I have some activities where my class will draw the movement of my
> hands as I move them in patterns in the air, and then draw from videos of
> other actions, like the hands of a conductor as he conducts an orchestra,
> linking their hands with his. These ideas come from the work of Morgan
> O'Hara, www.morganohara.com. It is a kind of drawing with no subject, or
> drawing that is a recording rather than representation.
>
>
>
> I hope this adds to the list of 'divergent drawing exercises', but does
> anyone have any ideas as an extension to this, as I seem to have hit a bit
> of writer's block?
>
>
>
> Lucy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Sun, 18 Sep 2011 20:29:03 +0100
> From:    leonora sharrock <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Divergent drawing exercises
>
> Hello All - enjoying this thread!
> In the past with my students we have explored the notion of 'trace' by going out and making photographs of found drawings, the marks, stains and scratches that record the existence of something/ someone in close proximity to another surface, and then use these images to explore ideas of trace, accident and purpose.
> Picking up on Dan's point about drawing being about the eye - I sometimes get my students to look for a very long time at a brightly lit model, in a darkened room, allow them to walk around, memorize the forms and shapes, then when they're all safely re-seated, pen and paper ready, I make them close their eyes AND I turn the lights off, so they are drawing blind, in a tactile, spatial way, and learning to trust their memories and mind's eye. Some of them get a brief after-image of the brightly-lit model for a while, and 'see' that, but with their eyes shut they all experience the paper and the movements of their arms/hands in a more connected way. I personally don't like the hand or arm as a 'mechanical device' , as I feel it reinforces a dualist 'mind/body' approach - though I suppose there is an equivalence with the needle of a seismograph!!
> Despite the potential for the lights-out,  'blind' drawing exercise as a set-up for a murder mystery, I've had no mishaps to date, but some fantastic drawings!
>
> Leonie.
>
> --- On Sun, 18/9/11, Dan Roach <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
> From: Dan Roach <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Divergent drawing exercises
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Sunday, 18 September, 2011, 8:40
>
>
>
> Hi everyone.
>
>
> Peter, I'd completely forgotten about this extract – thanks for bringing it to my attention again.
>
>
> I think I'd like to instil in the students that drawing is done with the eye and, if possible, to prompt them to consider the hand more as a mechanical device for executing the drawing. The knowing comes through looking, the looking forming part of the drawing. This is something that some of my colleagues and I were discussing last week and if I can get the undergrads to even consider this when making work, I think I'll have achieved something.
>
>
> The other thing that I'm going to factor in (and forgive me if someone else has already posted this) is to set up in the lecture theatre and play them some films (La Jetee, The Lives of Others, The Spirit of the Beehive etc, etc) and have them make at least 100 drawings through the films duration; explaining that representation isn't the goal…harvesting visual research is.
>
>
> Dan
>
>
> From: "McBurney, Peter" <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-To: The UK drawing research network mailing list <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2011 14:46:08 +0100
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Divergent drawing exercises
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lucy’s email regarding trace reminded me of John Berger’s discussion of the differences between western drawing and Chinese calligraphy in terms of the relative spatial positions of artist, object (or life model), and drawing.
>
>
>
> -- Peter
> ------------------
> “Where are we, during the act of drawing, in spirit?  Where are you at such moments – moments which add up to so many, one might think of them as another life-time?    Each pictorial tradition offers a different answer to this query.  For instance, the European tradition, since the Renaissance, places the model over there, the draughtsman here, and the paper somewhere in between, within arms reach of the draughtsman, who observes the model and notes down what he has observed on the paper in front of him.   The Chinese tradition arranges things differently.  Calligraphy, the trace of things, is behind the model and the draughtsman has to search for it, looking through the model.   On his paper he then repeats the gestures he has seen calligraphically.  For the Paleolithic shaman, drawing inside a cave, it was different again.  The model and the drawing surface were in the same place, calling to the draughtsman to come and meet them, and
> then trace, with his hand on the rock, their presence.”
> p. 123 of John Berger [2005]:  Berger on Drawing.  Edited by Jim Savage.  Aghabullogue, Co. Cork, Eire:  Occasional Press.
> ------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> From: The UK drawing research network mailing list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of lucy ward
> Sent: 17 September 2011 12:35
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] Divergent drawing exercises
>
>
>
> Hello there,
>
>
>
> I would like to add a suggestion to this thread and then ask for suggestions in return.
>
>
>
> I am planning a workshop on the idea of the trace. I mean the trace in the sense of tracing movement, action or time. Or that drawing might be the leaving of a trace.
>
> So far, I have some activities where my class will draw the movement of my hands as I move them in patterns in the air, and then draw from videos of other actions, like the hands of a conductor as he conducts an orchestra, linking their hands with his. These ideas come from the work of Morgan O'Hara, www.morganohara.com. It is a kind of drawing with no subject, or drawing that is a recording rather than representation.
>
>
>
> I hope this adds to the list of 'divergent drawing exercises', but does anyone have any ideas as an extension to this, as I seem to have hit a bit of writer's block?
>
>
>
> Lucy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 17 Sep 2011 to 18 Sep 2011 (#2011-147)
> ***********************************************************************