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Dear Vianney, first of all ... THANK YOU very very much for your remarks and the literature!!! Quote: "Some big bovids can exist during the first millenium BC, but they are not coming from Italia." Are you quite sure? My investigations for my diploma thesis, which I finished a few weeks ago, let me come to another conclusion. Firstly ancient italian writers mention beside other cattle breeds a big sized one from central Italy - so there is reason to believe that the bigger cattle appearing in Austria and France during the Imperial Period is coming from Italy. Secondly I hit upon an italian paper, which lists up measurements of bones dated to the (I think it was) 5th century BC and they fit perfect into the range of measurements taken from roman cattle bones from Austria out of the first centuries AD AND around 400 BC (2 bones out of the 166 determined from my diploma thesis material were AMS dated and are therefore the earliest proof of roman cattle in Austria). Thirdly the head of our collection examined the skull morphology and concluded that the roman cattle imports from Austria showed the same traits like the skulls of a recent cattle breed in Italy, which is deemed to be the descendant of the ancient big sized cattle breed. So I think at the moment there is reason enough to claim they are coming from Italy ... but the future will show. I will definitely have a look at your papers - I am really curious about it. With kind regards, Mona Abd El Karem